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Prabowo for president, what's your take?

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  • #91
    "Our democracy will not consolidate if people’s mind-set remains wedged in a security approach in which militarism is an ideal. A sense that one candidate tends to regard civilian supremacy as subordinate to military efficacy.

    This nation should be proud of its military, but only if those in uniform acknowledge themselves as servants of the democratic, civilian governance.


    As one candidate offers a break from the past, the other romanticizes the Soeharto era.


    One is determined to reject the collusion of power and business, while the other is embedded in a New Order-style of transactional politics that betrays the spirit of reformasi.


    Rarely in an election has the choice been so definitive. Never before has a candidate ticked all the boxes on our negative checklist. And for that we cannot do nothing."

    The first two of these excerpted paragraphs are superb, showing bold leadership by a press that analyzes and summarizes.

    Unfortunately, the choice of Kalla (a leader of the Golongan Koruptor party) as running mate makes the fourth paragraph laughable.

    The last paragraph repeats the earlier part of the editorial that emphasizes whom NOT to vote for. This is sadly the Tweedledum and Tweedledee game of "lesser of two evils" (e.g., US two-party system), and is a kind of fear-uncertainty-doubt (FUD) tactic in its own right. I would have been more impressed if they had simply used the third paragraph plus the praise of Jokowi without dramatizing their "first ever endorsement due to the crux of history" by focusing on negatives in FUD fashion.

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    • #92
      A man is known by the company he keep ... it's obvious to me what kind of people surrounding Prabowo and all the dirty tricks they have been using during the election campaign ..

      I am not a fan of Jokowi .. I think he is a naive leader .. and he will inherit a nation with huge problems from SBY ... my only hope he will build a solid cabinet and credible ministers to support his administration

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      • #93
        Originally posted by haryadi View Post
        A man is known by the company he keep ... it's obvious to me what kind of people surrounding Prabowo and all the dirty tricks they have been using during the election campaign ..

        I am not a fan of Jokowi .. I think he is a naive leader .. and he will inherit a nation with huge problems from SBY ... my only hope he will build a solid cabinet and credible ministers to support his administration
        Hmm ... as an American, this sounds familiar to me somehow ... and I think I agree. I want to be a Jokowi fan, but I've been down that road before with Obama. "Fool me once ... "
        [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

        The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

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        • #94
          Fool me once, shame on you.
          Fool me twice, shame on me.

          Yes, Mr. B, that's why I didn't vote for BHO the second time.

          And now Jokowi has taken to the finger-wagging technique. Also has heavy moneyed interest advisers even before getting elected...

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          • #95
            Originally posted by martindo View Post
            Fool me once, shame on you.
            Fool me twice, shame on me.

            Yes, Mr. B, that's why I didn't vote for BHO the second time.

            And now Jokowi has taken to the finger-wagging technique. Also has heavy moneyed interest advisers even before getting elected...
            I think it is unrealistic to expect that Jokowi should be a pure-hearted, squeaky-clean messiah surrounded only by followers who are all the epitome of good government. It's just not how politics work. People who thought this way about BHO are almost childlike in their naivete and are naturally disappointed when it was revealed he was actually just a human, and a politician at that.

            In the same vein, people who point out the short-comings of Jokowi and the people surrounding him are seriously delusional if they think that Prabowo or his cohorts. A lot of people I know apply an almost "zen" reasoning that "I don't care if Jokowi wins, but I know I DON'T want Prabowo to be president". Sure, this is a "lesser of to evil" or "FUD" choice, but ultimately I believe a correct one.

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            • #96
              I think it's childlike and worse than naive to ignore the LARGE number of campaign promises that BHO reneged or sidestepped. A human may make mistakes and be constrained in power, but at least he or she tries to keep *most* of his/her promises.

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              • #97
                Closing of Gitmo.
                (Re)Establishing regulations for Wall Street banksters.
                Rolling back the war effort.
                Rolling back the security state.
                Meaningful national health insurance.

                Perhaps some other (former) BHO supporters can add to this list of broken promises. In fact, what has he actually accomplished in 6 years, aside from getting a "hope for the future" Nobel prize?

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                • #98
                  Miss Naughty commented very perceptively in the Expat Chat thread on Post Election (post #101):

                  Here my say, I don't care if Jokowi is playing beggar or even a real beggar. I do not choose base on how poor a candidate is. I choose Jokowi because he is from a different clan. I like to take a risk to see whether he can make change or not where with Prabowo, it's predictable what will happen in the next 10 years.

                  She had previously referred to Jokowi as a belonging to a different tribe -- both uses being figurative to indicate a different mindset or political "culture".

                  As I said a couple times, if I had the right to vote, I would vote for Jokowi. But "fool me twice" still applies: if he doesn't fulfill promises in his first time, don't vote for him in 2019 out of habit or FUD (or in the case of 2009 election, lack of imagination of the country in regard to whom they nominate for president).

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                  • #99
                    It wont really matter who wins, neither side holds the balance of power in DPR. Without that the president is a figurehead limited to issuing announcements that are ignored. This what happened to SBY efforts to fix the petrol subsidy, Bakrie and others supported and then turned on him and SBY couldn't pass the legislation.

                    Team JK may be less likely to drain the coffers, but neither will be able to make the structural changes needed - reduce bureaucracy, channel energy and other subsidies into effective poverty reduction, reform education, get the country ready for AEC.

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                    • I always Golput on 1999, 2004 and 2009 elections, my view to all candidates mostly was negative;
                      but not this time.
                      I'll vote Jokowi for following reasons:
                      - Optimistic - assuming everybody will deliver their promise, his program is more realistic
                      - Pesimistic - less bad guys around him, much less damage to the country

                      last but not least, I don't know what Prabowo has given to the people of republic Indonesia. Don't tell me, he fought during the east timor invention; or, mapenduma was a great success

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by martindo View Post
                        Closing of Gitmo.
                        (Re)Establishing regulations for Wall Street banksters.
                        Rolling back the war effort.
                        Rolling back the security state.
                        Meaningful national health insurance.

                        Perhaps some other (former) BHO supporters can add to this list of broken promises. In fact, what has he actually accomplished in 6 years, aside from getting a "hope for the future" Nobel prize?
                        If people stop reelecting politicians because of a broken campaign promises, no one would ever hold a second term.

                        Now how many of those promises were "broken" because they were held up by the obstructionist Republican controlled congress? Also, rolling back the war effort was never a campaign promise, it was to get out of Iraq. IIRC, he even said that he would increase involvement in Afghanistan.

                        Anyway, this thread is about Prabowo and Indonesian politics, we should have a separate thread for discussion of Obama's presidency if so desired...

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                        • Someone's reputation is built on their history. Both Prabowo and Hatta have history abusing their power and position, and why do people still vote for them? Why make things so complicated when decision can be made easily? Jokowi and JK so far have a lot of positive points base on their history and people still need to weigh decision over these 2 candidates? What a selfish voter.

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                          • Recently, some academics from Australia wrote an illuminating piece on Prabowo's speeches. In one of them, Prabowo underlined that democracy is an anathema to Indonesian cultural characteristic which is based on consensus. This might be a rhetoric used to boost up nationalist spirit amongst the voters but delving further into this, one might find that his remarks are hinting at the idea of returning to an authoritarian system. He further went on to say that a new platform based on consensus should be made as an alternative for their current democratic election. The old constitution gives so much power to the president and that was one of the reasons why Suharto ruled the country for more than three decades.

                            If Jokowi wins the election, we will see an interesting political landscape.

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                            • i have the same q miss N, so i asked some of my colleagues who'd choose prabowo .. here are some answers i could get : prabowo will help islam to be pure ( pemurnian agama), prabowo will make syariah law to be implemented soon , indonesia consists of many races and cases, so it needs someone from military who can be firm , indonesia needs to have a president who is from military as indonesia has always been bullied by other countries, they dont like megawati ...

                              most of the fanatic moslem would choose prabowo, as they believe jokowi is not a devoted moslem since he refused the syariah law to be implemented here...
                              and most of them have no idea about how bad 98 was ..

                              Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
                              Someone's reputation is built on their history. Both Prabowo and Hatta have history abusing their power and position, and why do people still vote for them? Why make things so complicated when decision can be made easily? Jokowi and JK so far have a lot of positive points base on their history and people still need to weigh decision over these 2 candidates? What a selfish voter.
                              dont judge a book by it cover. judge it by it price. good books are expensive

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                              • With Jokowi, I don't think what you see is what you get.
                                He might be from a diff clan, but there're familiar faces behind him; like Wiranto & Setiyoso. Both are from the Soeharto era, no?

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