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Prabowo for president, what's your take?

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  • #76
    Well, Nixon's Campaign to Re-Elect the President (CREEP) was run by a guy who famously said he would "run over my own grandmother if that's what it took to get Nixon re-elected". And SBY was hailed as the Ratu Adil by his supporters. So, exaggerated praise and fanaticism by followers is not new in elections, and goes back centuries in terms of courtiers and kings.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by martindo View Post
      Well, Nixon's Campaign to Re-Elect the President (CREEP) was run by a guy who famously said he would "run over my own grandmother if that's what it took to get Nixon re-elected". And SBY was hailed as the Ratu Adil by his supporters. So, exaggerated praise and fanaticism by followers is not new in elections, and goes back centuries in terms of courtiers and kings.

      What kind of specimen could idolize Nixon? Really does take all kinds, I guess. "CREEP" has to be the most appropriate - and morbidly hilarious - acronym of all time (so far) by the way.

      I'm still 101% hopeful for a JokoWin, but not nearly as confident as I was a month or two ago ...
      [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

      The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

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      • #78
        Journalist Allan Nairn Threatened for Exposing Indonesian Pres. Candidate’s Role in Mass Killings
        http://www.democracynow.org/2014/6/2...d_for_exposing

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        • #79
          @Mister B: Seriously, what kind of person would think it's clever to come up with CREEP as an acronym? It's more bizarre than the shift from Secretary of War to Secretary of Defense in 1947 (the year before Orwell wrote his book 1984), or P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act.

          Anyway, Nairn is certainly meddling in the politics of another country, which is borderline legal in international law (encouraging an uprising or rebel group in another country is generally considered an act of war) and may backfire in light of recent nationalist sentiment turning ugly re: JIS.

          Here's another interesting video that is only 4.5 minutes. It's starts with the portrayal of a pig in a Medan market and ends with the then-VP praising "preman" at a large gathering:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub7mBwtAj4w

          Oh, wait a minute, who is that guy in the orange jacket? Hey, it's the same person who is now Jokowi's running mate! WTF? Stranger than CREEP.
          Last edited by martindo; 29-06-14, 05:05.

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          • #80
            Allan Nairn’s reputation and integrity is now damaged, nobody will ever talk to him again especially if it’s “off the record”. Since we now know that his integrity is questionable, are we going to believe what he is saying? So, did the the interview really happen? Did Prabowo really say what Allan said he did? Obviously, there is no video or voice recording to prove it.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
              Allan Nairn’s reputation and integrity is now damaged, nobody will ever talk to him again especially if it’s “off the record”. Since we now know that his integrity is questionable, are we going to believe what he is saying? So, did the the interview really happen? Did Prabowo really say what Allan said he did? Obviously, there is no video or voice recording to prove it.
              Alan Nairn's take on this:

              I decided that it was my obligation to put this information on the record so that the Indonesian people could consider it in making their decision. And it’s not a decision I made lightly, because an off-the-record promise is serious. But I felt that the harm of breaking that was—would be outweighed by even the greater harm of if I did not disclose the information.
              I'm satisfied with that reasoning!

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              • #82
                Yes, I read that, but you know, everyone always finds a "justification" for breaching journalistic trust and confidentiality. "I was threatened by my boss", "our newspaper would have been sued", "the FBI came to my house" -- it's *always* an emergency that explains breach of trust.

                IMO, Nairn (who did good work contributing to the ban on aid to Indonesian military after Tim-Tim atrocities) is simply throwing fuel on the fire, making the "spectacle" of elections more dramatic than it already is.

                And the interview is about 13 years old. People can change. If you still don't trust the guy, don't vote for him. (I probably wouldn't.)

                Sul is correct that we don't have recorded evidence and must trust Nairn's summary (and his state of panic about an election in a country where he is not a citizen).
                Last edited by martindo; 30-06-14, 09:45.

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                • #83
                  The Prabowo camp's rebuttal is reported in Jak Globe:
                  http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/...ady-democracy/

                  Strangely, Nairn has delayed the promised "part 2" of his blog, containing what is probably the most damaging "evidence": that Prabowo was a kind of hired hand of US covert ops. People who support Prabowo are not that easily swayed by what he said 13 years ago about alleged atrocities that happened even earlier, because they generally agree "he was serving his country". What might actually disturb them is that the ultra-nationalist is acting as a kind of proxy for the foreign interests that he rails against. One clue of this is his running mate.

                  Then again, Jokowi's running mate doesn't do much credit to Jokowi's principles either: honesty and fairness vs Golkar and preman.

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                  • #84
                    Anyone knows that JK is now at the hospital right after last night's debate ?
                    "The Beauty of Indonesia is located outside Jakarta"

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                    • #85
                      http://www.democracynow.org/2014/6/2...d_for_exposing
                      Above is Allan Nairn's video interview. Interesting that he says "one candidate is surrounded by killers as his supporters, the other candidate was a killer".

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by martindo View Post
                        http://www.democracynow.org/2014/6/2...d_for_exposing
                        Above is Allan Nairn's video interview. Interesting that he says "one candidate is surrounded by killers as his supporters, the other candidate was a killer".
                        Just gotta pick the lesser of two evils.

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                        • #87
                          Ya, that's the old mainstream "conventional wisdom" that keeps Tweedledee and Tweedledum two-party systems afloat, like in the US.

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                          • #88
                            Re my post #85 above, see Abook Looty's post #82 in the "Post election, what..." thread of the Expat Chat section. He gives details about the killers who are supporting/protecting/restricting (pick your verb) Jokowi.

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                            • #89
                              Going back to the title of the thread...maybe we should ask "president of which country?" He seems well-suited to run Thailand.

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                              • #90
                                http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...ng-jokowi.html
                                [FONT=comic sans ms]Please excuse my poor English. [/FONT]

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