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Prabowo for president, what's your take?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Injun View Post
    This is despite his alleged masterminding of the 98 riot costing Chinese Indonesians in Jakarta their money (and in many cases their lives).
    It is unfair to keep linking Prabowo to the events of 98 when there is no solid proof, on the contrary, there are indications that he was framed. Did you know that Prabowo has relatives who are Chinese Indonesians? Prabowo came from a rich family, he became super rich after retiring from the military and venturing into business. I don't think anybody can buy him, and that's good...no need to return favors, just do what is good for the country.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
      It is unfair to keep linking Prabowo to the events of 98 when there is no solid proof, on the contrary, there are indications that he was framed. Did you know that Prabowo has relatives who are Chinese Indonesians? Prabowo came from a rich family, he became super rich after retiring from the military and venturing into business. I don't think anybody can buy him, and that's good...no need to return favors, just do what is good for the country.
      He was Commander in Chief of Kostrad (Army Strategic Reserve Command) at the time, which is the largest battle-ready component of the Army. Previously he was Commandant General of Kopassus (Special Forces Command), his original unit where he gained fame (or notoriety, depending on your point of view). On those fateful days, his pals Muchdi PR and Sjafrie Sjamsoeddin were Commandant General of Kopassus and Commander in Chief of Kodam Jaya (Jayakarta Military Region Command) respectively. Kopassus as a special force is always battle-ready, and Kodam Jaya always have two infantry brigades in Jakarta at its disposal. All these battle-ready forces did absolutely nothing in Jakarta, so the rioting didn't stop until Wiranto --who as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces had no troops under his personal command-- finally managed to get the bulk of the Marinir (Marines) shipped from Surabaya. The Marinir alone pacified Jakarta, while three other larger Commands could not. If this was fiction I would toss the script to the trash can. No less than the government-established Tim Gabungan Pencari Fakta (Fact Finding Combined Team) alleged that Prabowo masterminded the riot.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Injun View Post
        I will not vote for Jokowi and Ahok either due to their affiliation with him.
        Not even as a president?

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        • #19
          You people said there is a need for urgency for more love and forgiveness in the world....

          Some people changes overtime, lets just give that chance to Prabowo...
          "The Beauty of Indonesia is located outside Jakarta"

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ricky_id View Post
            Not even as a president?
            They are already indebted to Prabowo, so I will only consider them for a position when Prabowo is dead.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Abook looty View Post
              You people said there is a need for urgency for more love and forgiveness in the world....

              Some people changes overtime, lets just give that chance to Prabowo...
              Forgiving is one thing, supporting with a vote is an entirely different matter.

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              • #22
                Made some brief research about Prabowo's personal stance on us Cina and found that he indeed had got some resentment against us in the past, saying as far as that he would drive us Chinese out in front of Sofyan Wanandi's (one of the leading Chinese-ethnic businessmen here) face even when it would cost the economy. Well if that's the case and he makes it to Istana Negara, I'll keep the option of applying for asylum standby. He needs to work hard to reassure us whether we Chinese will stay Indonesians and equal to other Indonesians, unlike in Malaysia.
                Last edited by ricky_id; 10-08-12, 00:21.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ricky_id View Post
                  Made some brief research about Prabowo's personal stance on us Cina and found that he indeed had got some resentment against us in the past, saying as far as that he would drive us Chinese out in front of Sofyan Wanandi's (one of the leading Chinese-ethnic businessmen here) face even when it would cost the economy.
                  I guess your research is too "brief", Sofyan Wanandi denied saying that, here's the link... http://gresnews.com/berita/politik/9...a#.UCSp-XmVNCE

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Injun View Post
                    He was Commander in Chief of Kostrad (Army Strategic Reserve Command) at the time, which is the largest battle-ready component of the Army. Previously he was Commandant General of Kopassus (Special Forces Command), his original unit where he gained fame (or notoriety, depending on your point of view). On those fateful days, his pals Muchdi PR and Sjafrie Sjamsoeddin were Commandant General of Kopassus and Commander in Chief of Kodam Jaya (Jayakarta Military Region Command) respectively. Kopassus as a special force is always battle-ready, and Kodam Jaya always have two infantry brigades in Jakarta at its disposal. All these battle-ready forces did absolutely nothing in Jakarta, so the rioting didn't stop until Wiranto --who as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces had no troops under his personal command-- finally managed to get the bulk of the Marinir (Marines) shipped from Surabaya. The Marinir alone pacified Jakarta, while three other larger Commands could not. If this was fiction I would toss the script to the trash can. No less than the government-established Tim Gabungan Pencari Fakta (Fact Finding Combined Team) alleged that Prabowo masterminded the riot.
                    The fact-finding team did not "find" who the mastermind was...until today, it is still a mystery. Prabowo took responsibility as commanding officer for the kidnapping of some people by his men, that's what he was punished for. Don't forget that in the military, you have to follow a chain-of-command, Prabowo was a 3-star general then, the Army Chief as well as the Joint Chief of Staff are both 4-star generals. Prabowo cannot bring out his troops if he had instructions not to.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
                      I guess your research is too "brief", Sofyan Wanandi denied saying that, here's the link... http://gresnews.com/berita/politik/9...a#.UCSp-XmVNCE
                      I don't know, history will tell, there was something fishy about the riot for sure. I'm not sure if I'm going to support him, I'll see. If Prabowo indeed makes it to the top and people like me and Injun (me for being Chinese, Injun for being a 1998 demonstrator) will stay safe throughout his administration and he fulfills his campaign promises, I'll seriously consider voting for him for re-election. Otherwise, I'll be like one of the German Jews in the 1940's: feeling belonging to the land, adopting the culture and language, yet driven out for looking different.
                      Last edited by ricky_id; 10-08-12, 13:55.

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                      • #26
                        Here are recent articles about Prabowo
                        Originally posted by Wallstreet Journal
                        Indonesians Turn Gaze to Suharto-Era General




                        BY ERIC BELLMAN

                        BOGOR, Indonesia—In the 1990s, Prabowo Subianto was a feared military commander, the son-in-law of Indonesian strongman Suharto and the alleged force behind the ruler's heavy handed crackdowns against democracy activists.

                        Today, he is the front-runner to become Indonesia's next president.

                        Recent polls put the controversial but charismatic leader of one of Indonesia's smallest parties at the front of the race to succeed President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Though the president's second and final five-year term won't end until 2014, dissatisfaction with his government after a series of corruption scandals and abandoned reforms already is spurring many Indonesians to focus on who ...


                        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...149541634.html
                        "The Beauty of Indonesia is located outside Jakarta"

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                        • #27
                          Guest Speaker at some random university at Singapore..
                          http://www.rsis.edu.sg/Indonesia_Prog/distinguish.asp
                          "The Beauty of Indonesia is located outside Jakarta"

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
                            The fact-finding team did not "find" who the mastermind was...until today, it is still a mystery. Prabowo took responsibility as commanding officer for the kidnapping of some people by his men, that's what he was punished for. Don't forget that in the military, you have to follow a chain-of-command, Prabowo was a 3-star general then, the Army Chief as well as the Joint Chief of Staff are both 4-star generals. Prabowo cannot bring out his troops if he had instructions not to.
                            I specifically said that Prabowo was the alleged mastermind of the 1998 riot according to the TGPF. That means they believed he was responsible, it's just that they couldn't prove it. Facts are hard to come by for that sort of things in Indonesia, even today nobody knows who the real shooters were at Trisakti.

                            The way you say it, you're implying that he got punished for the kidnappings done by his Kopassus subordinates, as if he didn't know it was going on. But, then in the same paragraph you said he couldn't do anything because there were people above him. So which is it? Can soldiers act without direct orders from their commandant, or can't they?

                            There is no proof that Wiranto or Subagyo ordered him not to move either. Wiranto scrambled to get the Marines from Surabaya instead of mobilizing Kostrad, Kopassus, and Kodam Jaya (all close to Jakarta)? How does that make sense?

                            I know a military general is probably the only kind of leader strong enough to check hard line Muslims, but pick another general, anybody but Prabowo.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Injun View Post
                              I specifically said that Prabowo was the alleged mastermind of the 1998 riot according to the TGPF. That means they believed he was responsible, it's just that they couldn't prove it.
                              Or, was he a victim of a set-up?


                              Originally posted by Injun View Post
                              The way you say it, you're implying that he got punished for the kidnappings done by his Kopassus subordinates, as if he didn't know it was going on. But, then in the same paragraph you said he couldn't do anything because there were people above him. So which is it? Can soldiers act without direct orders from their commandant, or can't they?
                              It's possible his men over did it, and he knew nothing about the kidnappings. But some of the kidnap victims later became his friends & supporters.


                              Originally posted by Injun View Post
                              There is no proof that Wiranto or Subagyo ordered him not to move either. Wiranto scrambled to get the Marines from Surabaya instead of mobilizing Kostrad, Kopassus, and Kodam Jaya (all close to Jakarta)? How does that make sense?
                              Some people feared he could wrest power, the country was in chaos, and the president was out of the country, so it could be that they wanted his troops to stay in barracks.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
                                Or, was he a victim of a set-up?
                                Anything is possible (including extra terrestrial lifeform), but some things are less possible than others. Prabowo as a Kopassus officer had extensive contacts and influence, then he was Kopassus commanding general, then he was holding Suharto's old post at Kostrad during the riots, then he was also Suharto's son in law. You couldn't begin to fathom the enormous power that he held at the time.

                                It's possible his men over did it, and he knew nothing about the kidnappings.
                                It's also possible that the CIA did it, or Mossad, throw in MI6 for good measure. There is no proof that they didn't do it, is there?

                                But some of the kidnap victims later became his friends & supporters.
                                Welcome to Indonesia, home of strange bedfellows. That kind of things do not surprise me the very least.

                                Some people feared he could wrest power, the country was in chaos, and the president was out of the country, so it could be that they wanted his troops to stay in barracks.
                                Or it could be that he wanted his troops to stay in the barracks so the goons he sent to incite the riot could do their job. At the day Suharto resigned green beret Kostrad troops were out of the barracks and stationed at the gate of MPR/DPR, this I confirm with my own eyes. They were joined later by purple beret Marines, which was fortunate considering the rumor that Prabowo was gonna make a Tiananmen out of us.

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