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Prabowo for president, what's your take?

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  • Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
    All i can say is if Prabowo became president of Indonesia is would be a black day for Indonesian people and a giant leap backwards for the country. Everything from human rights to the economy would suffer and any popular sense of discontentment or disapproval would be crushed by a reinvigorated military machine. How could you believe that a human rights abuser responsible for the disappearance of numerous democracy activists "now all presumed dead" would have the sheer arrogance to stand as a presidential candidate of a fledgling democracy, how could you believe that people in Indonesia could be so ill educated, uniformed or just plain idiotic to vote for him ?? It would be like hiring a paedophile to run a childrens home, even when you knew of his previous convictions.
    That’s harsh, you are accusing roughly half of Indonesia’s population which includes SBY (as everyone knows whom he voted for).

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    • Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
      That’s harsh, you are accusing roughly half of Indonesia’s population which includes SBY (as everyone knows whom he voted for).
      Fits perfectly. Especially the "uninformed and just plain idiotic" parts. We can also ad the bought voters.
      Now the plan is running to steal an election. More sinister work by the Prabowo party to play to the idiotic.
      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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      • The very fact that Prabowo is a viable candidate to begin with is proof positive that many of my compatriots are either uneducated, religious fundamentalists, or just plain old idiots.

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        • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post
          The very fact that Prabowo is a viable candidate to begin with is proof positive that many of my compatriots are either uneducated, religious fundamentalists, or just plain old idiots.
          I must say I have to agree with you N. So ashamed. How could they????

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          • I am sure that both candidates' supporters will resist the temptation to meddle with the ballots and will use the example of George W. Bush's election victory in Florida and his resulting successful presidential bid as a benchmark of how a fair and free election should be run. With such high standards to measure themselves against I think it highly unlikely that there will be any possibility of corruption during the count.

            Fingers crossed that this shining example of Democracy in action will inspire our presidential candidates here in Indonesia.
            Last edited by Mr Fizzywig; 11-07-14, 08:28.
            "He who has no manners has no knowledge..."

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            • He lost and is being a bitch.

              Exactly what you'd expect from a man with no apparent class.

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              • Originally posted by Mr Fizzywig View Post
                I am sure that both candidates' supporters will resist the temptation to meddle with the ballots and will use the example of George W. Bush's election victory in Florida and his resulting successful presidential bid as a benchmark of how a fair and free election should be run. With such high standards to measure themselves against I think it highly unlikely that there will be any possibility of corruption during the count.

                Fingers crossed that this shining example of Democracy in action will inspire our presidential candidates here in Indonesia.
                Just to keep things in perspective, the difference in votes between Bush and Gore in Florida was actually less than 600 votes. The final numbers were Bush winning by 537 votes out of the 6 million cast (I think).

                If the "unbiased" quick count numbers are correct, Probowo is going to have to come up with a way to make up for around 6-8 million votes. This is roughly the same as faking the entire state of Florida. I am not saying it could not be done, but it would be a tall order.

                Comparing the two is a little like apples and oranges.
                Last edited by matts1w; 11-07-14, 09:41.

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                • Originally posted by matts1w View Post
                  Just to keep things in perspective, the difference in votes between Bush and Gore in Florida was actually less than 600 votes. The final numbers were Bush winning by 537 votes out of the 6 million cast (I think).

                  If the "unbiased" quick count numbers are correct, Probowo is going to have to come up with a way to make up for around 6-8 million votes. This is roughly the same as faking the entire state of Florida. I am not saying it could not be done, but it would be a tall order.

                  Comparing the two is a little like apples and oranges.
                  Don't you mean oranges and durians?
                  [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

                  The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

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                  • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post
                    The very fact that Prabowo is a viable candidate to begin with is proof positive that many of my compatriots are either uneducated, religious fundamentalists, or just plain old idiots.
                    As I know a few of these people personally, and they are my friends (well, my wife's friends, I'm just a "friend-in-law"), I prefer to keep it limited to "undereducated, gullible and misinformed". They are also religious, but I think "idiots" is probably going a step too far.
                    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

                    The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
                      As I know a few of these people personally, and they are my friends (well, my wife's friends, I'm just a "friend-in-law"), I prefer to keep it limited to "undereducated, gullible and misinformed". They are also religious, but I think "idiots" is probably going a step too far.
                      Far from idiots. A friend of mine knows a group of intellectuals that were very much in Prabowo's camp. I can easily see that people seeking a strong leader would vote for Prabowo. Some belive he will be like Soeharto and keep the FPI etc in check

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                      • Originally posted by Michael2014 View Post
                        Far from idiots. A friend of mine knows a group of intellectuals that were very much in Prabowo's camp. I can easily see that people seeking a strong leader would vote for Prabowo. Some belive he will be like Soeharto and keep the FPI etc in check
                        P has the appeal of a strongman, who promises to bring "order" to chaotic times. Face it: some people aren't patient with democracy. I'm not talking about blacks in the US waiting 100 years for the Civil Rights act, but more recent identity groups, as well as the average Indonesian who feels "poli-tikus" is the apt word for a politician and they are as corrupt as ever. Strongman (or woman in the case of Maggie Thatcher and Indira Gandhi) rarely delivers on the promise, but does distract with a lot of "spectacle" centered on patriotism, loyalty, and religion. And somehow the "nationalistic" ones always end up catering to foreign moneyed interests anyway.

                        I don't know why Michael thinks P will keep FPI in check -- they are backing him. In general, as I and a few others have noted in the forum, WTF is the point of electing a general (e.g., the current one) if he can't keep the religious radicals in check? If a military leader can't do that, then there's no point in promoting a general as a "strong" candidate. Might as well choose a civilian (e.g., Gus Dur).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Michael2014 View Post
                          Far from idiots. A friend of mine knows a group of intellectuals that were very much in Prabowo's camp. I can easily see that people seeking a strong leader would vote for Prabowo. Some belive he will be like Soeharto and keep the FPI etc in check
                          These "intellectuals" are blind of history, apparently. This is not uncommon in Indonesia.

                          While I personally believe the best leader for Indonesia is a benevolent dictator Singapore-style, I recognize that the risk outweighs the reward. Prabowo would easily be a dictator, but it's utter stupidity to think that he's going to be benevolent.

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                          • His party has great appeal in this part of Java, equal to PDI and surpassing the fakely named Democrat Party.

                            But I agree that he's not the best leader for the "program" he proposes. I don't know why he didn't just put his son or other protege forward as a candidate, who would look a lot better because lacking the human rights baggage and rumors that P has to deal with.

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                            • Originally posted by matts1w View Post
                              Just to keep things in perspective, the difference in votes between Bush and Gore in Florida was actually less than 600 votes. The final numbers were Bush winning by 537 votes out of the 6 million cast (I think).

                              If the "unbiased" quick count numbers are correct, Probowo is going to have to come up with a way to make up for around 6-8 million votes. This is roughly the same as faking the entire state of Florida. I am not saying it could not be done, but it would be a tall order.

                              Comparing the two is a little like apples and oranges.
                              The quantity of votes, as you correctly say, is larger in this contest. However, few people will say that the vote in Florida was counted fairly or that equal and fair standards of judgement in the manual recount were applied in a standard way across all the recounting teams. In actual fact, while the votes "counted" gave Bush a small margin of victory, the actual ballot papers that were not able to be read automatically was closer to 9000, and country wide the machines failed to count 2 percent of all votes cast in the USA during this election. Interestingly, Gore recieved [COLOR=#800080] 50,988,442 votes; George Bush, the Republican, received 50,449,494[/COLOR], but won the election.

                              My comments were however, tongue in cheek. The heart of the matter is this, even a country which has been a democracy for 238 years can still have problems running elections in a completely fair and representative way and that with a very open and accountable system of checks and balances. The Indonesian people do not have this luxury, and with 10 days before results come in, there is a high possibility of unfortunate counting practices which could result in the wrong person sitting in the president's big chair, as happened in America in the 2000 election.

                              When you consider this, I think most people will believe that apples are indeed being compared to apples.
                              Last edited by Mr Fizzywig; 11-07-14, 14:29.
                              "He who has no manners has no knowledge..."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by martindo View Post
                                P has the appeal of a strongman, who promises to bring "order" to chaotic times. Face it: some people aren't patient with democracy. I'm not talking about blacks in the US waiting 100 years for the Civil Rights act, but more recent identity groups, as well as the average Indonesian who feels "poli-tikus" is the apt word for a politician and they are as corrupt as ever. Strongman (or woman in the case of Maggie Thatcher and Indira Gandhi) rarely delivers on the promise, but does distract with a lot of "spectacle" centered on patriotism, loyalty, and religion. And somehow the "nationalistic" ones always end up catering to foreign moneyed interests anyway.

                                I don't know why Michael thinks P will keep FPI in check -- they are backing him. In general, as I and a few others have noted in the forum, WTF is the point of electing a general (e.g., the current one) if he can't keep the religious radicals in check? If a military leader can't do that, then there's no point in promoting a general as a "strong" candidate. Might as well choose a civilian (e.g., Gus Dur).
                                Martindo, I am NOT suggesting that Prabowo would keep the radicals in check - that was a view from an "intellectual" - which I am not!!

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