Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

On Personal Channel

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • On Personal Channel

    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Times][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Times][SIZE=2][FONT=verdana]As you may all know that we have a personal channel where people can talk about relationship, friendship issues and look for partners. Yet, we feel that recently some posts and threads are a bit too much and can make people under the impression that this forum is a dating site. We maintain that this forum is NOT a dating site. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]Although we allow people to post a thread about searching for ideal partners, we prohibit the use of words such as 'bule', 'foreigner', 'white','Indonesian', 'Asian', 'Javanese' and other qualifiers that may have a racial undertone.[COLOR=#222222][FONT=Times][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Times][SIZE=2][FONT=verdana]

    In addition, our PG and forum policy do not condone racism, sexist remarks, gender discrimination and religious slur. Friendship should not be based on race, gender, sexual preference or religion. Similarly, personality should matter more than any of these preferences (with the exception of sexual preference) if you look for a partner. So if you want to look for partners or friends with all these characteristics, please go to www.ukcupid.com, www.match.com and other dating sites. Believe us, they do more fantastic job than us in facilitating your sexual and love interests.

    With this new rule, any threads or posts using the above-mentioned words or mentioning the need to find partners with certain preferences will be immediately deleted. Moreover, this change will lead to the locking of all the old threads which pertain to seeking for expat partners. In order to make this change works, we encourage all members to take responsibility for keeping the quality of this forum by reporting any posts or threads that may be deemed offensive or breaching our PG.

    [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]Please refrain yourself from hijacking thread, flaming, bickering members should you not be interested in the posted ad.
    Last edited by El_Goretto; 28-01-15, 20:11.

  • #2
    The Word Foreigner

    [FONT=verdana][SIZE=2]
    [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana]Although we allow people to post a thread about searching for ideal partners, we prohibit the use of the words, 'bule', 'foreigner', 'white', and other words that may have a racial undertone. [/FONT][FONT=verdana][SIZE=2]
    White, bule.. yes, i can hear a racial tone in it. But, foreigner? Any substitute for this word that doesnt have a racial undertone? If I want to date/meet a foreigner only regardless he is white, blue, red, pink or purple but not a local how should I describe it here. And the other way around, if a foreigner want to date/meet a local only, will he/she be labeled as a racist, too?...

    And for dating site remark, these people posted in personal channel which is described as friendship, dating and relationship. What's wrong with that? For others who need advises they can look at other channels.



    [/SIZE][/FONT]

    Comment


    • #3
      Don't worry Missnaughty
      Human have a very strong sense of adaptability.

      People interested to meet foreigner will learn to call out:
      "Hi, I'm interested to have a promiscuous cultural exchange"
      Last edited by PhilippeD; 13-02-12, 10:01.
      La motivation vient en se motivant ~ Motivation come by self-motivation

      Comment


      • #4
        "I'd love to meet a friend I can practice my English with."

        "I'm hoping to move to Australia for school next year and would love to chat with people who have experience living there."

        "I love to learn about the world beyond Indonesia and am hoping to meet people who can share their knowledge with me."

        "I'm proud of my Indonesian heritage and would like to help others learn about our wonderful country and cultures."

        As PhillipeD says, humans are adaptable.

        Comment


        • #5
          Puspa: Do you have some suggestions for the atheists as well so they can communicate their feelings in code? Could save them a lot of grief.
          "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
          George Bernard Shaw

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lantern View Post
            Puspa: Do you have some suggestions for the atheists as well so they can communicate their feelings in code? Could save them a lot of grief.
            Why would you need to communicate it? If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in God. Are you looking for followers or trying to invent new religion?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
              Why would you need to communicate it? If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in God. Are you looking for followers or trying to invent new religion?
              Are you trying to derail your own thread?
              "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
              George Bernard Shaw

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lantern View Post
                Puspa: Do you have some suggestions for the atheists as well so they can communicate their feelings in code? Could save them a lot of grief.
                I think you can use "free thinker".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Personally, the politically correct thought police don't bother me at all. I have no guilt in having certain desires, wanting certain things and expressing my thoughts. Too many people now see a simple statement as being racist. If there is something negative attached to a statement, then it can be racist, but just using a word to describe someone is hardly bad in my opinion.

                  Maybe I tend to see the good in people. If someone is looking to date a White or Bule, I don't see that as racist against the non whites, I just see them expressing a desire. And I see no reason to try to tear down the person without knowing what is in their heart or mind. If I read that someone doesn't want to date the race I am, or the religion I have or date someone from the country where I am from, that is their choice. My feelings certainly don't get hurt and I would not even think to get into a discussion about it.

                  Finally, I have never met anyone that didn't have some type of bias or prejudice and I don't believe I ever will.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm sure most Indonesian who use the word 'bule', 'white', 'foreigner' or any similar word are only trying to refer to someone who is not born of Indonesian parents.
                    'bule' is used to define those whose hair color is not black.
                    'white' refers to those with (much)brighter or paler skin color.
                    'black' refers to those with (much) darker skin color.
                    the word 'foreigner' or in bahasa: 'orang asing', can cover more type of people. In villages of Indonesia, a person who doesn't live there is often referred as foreigner. opposite goes for the word 'local'
                    Kinda curious, what is the best word should we use to refer to a person from other country who is only visiting Indonesia? how about a person from other country who lives and works in Indonesia?
                    Last edited by abdinegoro; 13-02-12, 17:34.
                    "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
                      [FONT=verdana][SIZE=2]

                      White, bule.. yes, i can hear a racial tone in it. But, foreigner? Any substitute for this word that doesnt have a racial undertone? If I want to date/meet a foreigner only regardless he is white, blue, red, pink or purple but not a local how should I describe it here. And the other way around, if a foreigner want to date/meet a local only, will he/she be labeled as a racist, too?...

                      And for dating site remark, these people posted in personal channel which is described as friendship, dating and relationship. What's wrong with that? For others who need advises they can look at other channels.

                      [/SIZE][/FONT]
                      I rarely agreed with your posts, Missnaughty. But this time you have my vote.

                      I too feel that the last policy of not allowing the term ‘bule’, ‘white’ and ‘foreigner’ is a bit too much.

                      Sometimes we need something light to read. We have already serious posts here that undeniably very helpful for the community and for sure we take our hats off for those contributors. I my self have my own admiration for some members here who are very helpful to others, with their awesome knowledge. The Personal Section is less serious but mostly would bring more smiles into the day.

                      Dont get me wrong, I aint looking for any *alien* companion, but reading those who are looking for one with their preferences and efforts to find one is somehow becomes light reading, it balanced the seriousness of other threads. And even though this is not a dating site as we know, just one single section only would not harm the whole venerability of this forum, would it ? I mean along with the ‘bule’, ‘white’, ‘foreigner’ words. And if they eventually meet their better half through this section, would not that be the merit of final goal from this forum it self ? To make the life easier for the expats with their life here, the same coin to see it from the local’s view.

                      All I’m saying is, dont make the words become ‘haram’ to be said. They are just words, and a matter of one’s preference. Unless surely like Kimdub said, it goes along with any negative attached to the statement.
                      Words can inspire, thoughts can provoke, but only action can get you closer to your dreams.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
                        [FONT=verdana][SIZE=2]
                        White, bule.. yes, i can hear a racial tone in it. But, foreigner? Any substitute for this word that doesnt have a racial undertone? If I want to date/meet a foreigner only regardless he is white, blue, red, pink or purple but not a local how should I describe it here. [/SIZE][/FONT]
                        How should you describe it, Missnaughty? Very easy: as a non welcome ad in the EF (assuming that it is a dating/look for bf-gf ad).

                        We don't frown about dating ads per se, we do frown about dating ads who have a racial or discriminative flavor.

                        As I've already explained in posts, we have a moderator forum where we discuss moderation, policy interpretation and other stuff. Though it is not viewable to users, it's a thriving forum which sees its fair share of posts per day.

                        We recently discussed about "personals" and we found out that wm, ponyexpress and me (Mas rob has been involved but is still busy abroad and we believe we know his opinion on the matter) had the exact same fondness for this particular forum. However, we admitted that it was better to have it, so that dating ads aren't spread all over the forum and colonize other channels. It allows to centralize them in just one place.

                        However we also noticed that a number of posts have a racial undertone. Saying that one wants specifically to date a person from a specific race excludes all the others.

                        Ex: if you say "I want to date a white skin person" you implicitely mean if you are black, get the f**k out of here. If you say "I want to date a foreigner", you implicitely mean, if you are indonesian, get the f**k out of here.

                        When a company publishes a job ad, in many countries in this world, introducing a racial/discriminative specification is punished by law. You can not say for example: "a leading company requires a Production Manager, B.E (mechanical) with a degree in Business administration, white skin, 10 years experience in a similar position."
                        Competences, credential, skills are what should be found and what are authorized. Racial/discriminative criterias are not and you could be severely punished in my native country should you be found guilty of having written and/or publish such ad.

                        We believe that dating ads are pretty much the same and we believe that publicizing any discriminative criteria in one's ad is not something we wish to condone.

                        Like Kimbub, I also don't believe that one can be exempt of any [COLOR=#333333]type of bias or prejudice. Even if it's not written in the job ad, there are unfortunately some chances that this black/blue/yellow/white guy who could have fit the job perfectly isn't choosen just because of a racial prejudice. Yet, we would ax any job ad peddling/normalizing/encouraging discrimination. If we admit we would do so, then we have to do it also for dating ads.

                        You may find, Missnaughty, acceptable to prefer one race/citizenship/skin complexion over another. We don't, and we believe that our decision to ax any post having a racial/discriminative undertone is in accordance with our Posting Guidelines.

                        We've just found out recently that wm had the same feeling than us and this is what prompted an enforcement of this policy. When I first landed in this forum, "personals" was already existing and loaded with the type of ads I have hard time to accept. I gave my opinion about the channel to the admins but received no answer. I wrongly deducted that talking about it may be haram. Silly me! I now think that wm simply didn't get my email at the time.

                        We understand that some may disagree or may think it's "too much" but we don't want to encourage any type of racial discrimination. Anyone has the right to have prejudices, to be aware of it or not, but we have the right to prefer not facilitate it.

                        We are fully aware that we won't change people's views but by enforcing this policy we will at least force them to be creative. Puspa's post #3 is a fine example of what people will/should have to do to avoid a deletion of their ad.

                        [/COLOR]
                        Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=verdana]And for dating site remark, these people posted in personal channel which is described as friendship, [/FONT][/COLOR]dating and relationship. What's wrong with that? For others who need advises they can look at other channels
                        Here, we address another problem. We've noticed that a large part of the ads having the flavor described above were posted by people who log specifically to post a dating ad. It's often their very first (and sometimes last) post. We just want to bring to these person's attention that www.match.com is doing a much better job than us for the matter. That's a free advertisement that we do for those websites.

                        If your primary intention is just to post an ad for dating, and that you have racial preferences, then you may have choosen the wrong forum to post in. This is the message that we want to send.

                        In the same idea, we don't want to see this forum flooded with housings ads. Therefore we have listed a certain number of criterias/requirements for those ads. See the policy for the "personals" with the same eyes.

                        In number of posts, "personals" is the third channel with a bit more than 15.000 posts. I believe, it is just time to put this channel at its right place: a secondary one. Don't get me wrong, we have no intention to forbid ads in this channel. We just want them to be "cleaner" and we don't want to give a wrong impression to readers: it ain't a pick up forum where one can find a bule or give the impression that it's an easy way to pick up an indonesian girl. This vision stinks, IMHO.

                        OK, that's the practical explanation. If anyone wants to have something more philosophical I have no doubt that my dear friend ponyexpress will shime in soon to give some food for thoughts and to nurture a debate.
                        Last edited by atlantis; 14-02-12, 05:42.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Alia View Post
                          All I’m saying is, dont make the words become ‘haram’ to be said.
                          If you think that it is the word that we target rather than the underlying mentality, that is sad, Alia.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It seems to me that the central question is: what is the point of this forum, as envisioned by the people who started it and maintain it, and what sort of rules support that vision?

                            Every time someone starts a thread along the lines of "I wanna date a bule and I'm not gonna even try to explain myself until post #236 so you are all left to speculate that I'm a racist or gold-digger even though of course I'm not and you are meanies" (check the records, I do believe that 236 is the correct figure for a recent and rather appalling example of this kind of thread), it creates a trainwreck that diminishes the credibility of the forum and its usefulness according to the objectives and standards set by the forum founder.

                            You can disagree all you like with the restrictions now imposed on dating threads, and from a free speech perspective you are probably right. But this forum is not attempting to be "all things to all people" and it is under no obligation to meet my needs or yours. It has a goal and a purpose, and everything else is a side benefit. We all enjoy the life that the forum has taken on beyond helping expats get settled. However, there will always be a difference of opinion about what constitutes appropriate subject matter for the forum. Guess who wins? The people who run the forum, that's who.

                            I nearly didn't bother posting here when I first joined because I was repelled by the "date a bule" and related glurge. Not that I personally am so indispensable to the forum - let's not be silly - but the important thing is that I'm not alone in being put off by that stuff. I have actually had people in real life ask me why I post on this message board, because they have tried reading here and stopped because they found it so unpleasant and foolish. Mind you, these are intelligent people who could probably contribute a great deal of substance to the forum.

                            I do wonder, have any of those pathetic dating threads ever resulted in a mutually respectful and loving relationship? Or even an honestly cynical "I-take-advantage-of-you, you-take-advantage-of-me" transaction where both parties feel they've gotten what they want? That would be a bright spot, at least. Absent evidence to the contrary, however, it seems that all those threads do is sow pointless dissent, without making anyone's life better.

                            If you honestly think that those DAB threads improve anyone's life and/or make the forum a more useful, inviting place for the bewildered expats that it is here to help, you should be laying out a credible argument as to why they help the forum achieve its stated goals (note: not YOUR goals for what amuses you, but the stated goals that the forum is here to meet).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
                              I nearly didn't bother posting here when I first joined because I was repelled by the "date a bule" and related glurge. Not that I personally am so indispensable to the forum - let's not be silly - but the important thing is that I'm not alone in being put off by that stuff. I have actually had people in real life ask me why I post on this message board, because they have tried reading here and stopped because they found it so unpleasant and foolish. Mind you, these are intelligent people who could probably contribute a great deal of substance to the forum.
                              I had a similar experience.

                              I first met with this forum in 2003. My first impression was that there was some interesting characters and a huge potential but unfortunately a small group of alpha males who thought that belittling others was a way to uplift oneself and a group of female groupies with two neurones whose main goal in life was to catch a bule made me think that it was better to give it a miss. I just didn't want to waste my time in the prevailing atmosphere.

                              Like Puspa, I don't think that I am so indispensable for the forum, however I also know that from 2003 to 2008 the contributions I could have done might have helped people and fit the REAL aim of this forum.

                              I, like Puspa again, know a bunch of people who could be great contributors for the community but who just don't want to be associated with the image this forum may gives at times. It has always been my concern and many decision taken have been made with this in mind: how to troll contributors who can help us to serve the aim of this forum.

                              We've tried to tackle some of the problems this forum has and have reduced the level of flaming and squabbling. We will continue in this direction.
                              We now try to limit the number of "groupie wannabees".

                              We are only half way on the road to the destination we would like to bring this forum. Personally, I don't see the "personals" channel has an obstacle to reach it, but I see it, as it is now, as a potential burden It's about time to throw away some of the unnecessary ballast we have on board.

                              Again, we understand that some people may think that "personals" channel is so cool and we won't take it personally if some of these people see us as party poopers and find this forum as being a boring one without the content they seem to enjoy. We apologize for it, but it's not the aim of the forum. Salah alamat 'bu/pak.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X