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  • #16
    Buying is one thing, owning is another Marcus. You can buy right to use, or you can (or your Indonesian wife) eventually own it. I refuse to take part in flame war you seems to be inviting me in,and I ask you to please be more polite. If you read mart's post, he clearly said that he plans to get a study visa first to study Bahasa Indonesia here, not just to get a job. And if he do get a job AFTER STUDYING, the employer needs to handle the necessary paperwork.

    UNSKILLED? he mentioned that, and I quote:
    "have 4 years of experience as a laboratory technician in edible oil industry"

    Ur saying I'm not informing adequately? I gave references to what I said, isn't that adequate enough?

    A job is a job, if he do manage to land one AFTER studying here, you owe me and him an apology.
    "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." - Albert Einstein

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    • #17
      Originally posted by marcus View Post


      If I am not mistaken , you are Indonesian , right ? If true , it is a shame that you are "inviting" a non-skilled foreign worker to come to Indonesia to illegally take a job from your fellow unemployed countryman/woman .

      (I) You seem to be also lazy...

      (II) Again you don't inform adequately...

      (III) I had already told Marton91 that he/she was not eligible to be legally hired , but still you told him/her that he/she would be hired within a month
      Yes I'm Indonesian
      Not a shame at all, its a free market. He can work here, we can work there.

      (I) Nope, I don't think I'm lazy

      (II) as informed by my reply above

      (III) He comes, try to get a job. if he gets it, what would you say?

      Indonesia isn't that scary, its just a country like many other...


      "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by abdinegoro View Post
        (a) ... UNSKILLED? he mentioned that, and I quote:
        "have 4 years of experience as a laboratory technician in edible oil industry"

        (b) Ur saying I'm not informing adequately? I gave references to what I said, isn't that adequate enough?

        (c) A job is a job, if he do manage to land one AFTER studying here, you owe me and him an apology.

        (d) Yes I'm Indonesian
        Not a shame at all, its a free market. He can work here, we can work there.

        (a) I meant "not skilled enough" or "unqualified" to legally work in Indonesia . I admit that I was not clear using that word .

        (b) Not adequate enough .
        - Regarding getting a job easily , you should explain how/which rule Marton91 would follow to work legally in Indonesia (you provided nothing) .
        - Regarding buying a property , just stating a foreigner can buy a property and adding a single reference which many people will not bother to see , and if they see it , the reference is very short and don't explain everything . In reality the conditions for a foreigner to buy a Hak Pakai property is not attractive enough , in my view .

        (c) I think that you still didn't understand what I wrote . Morton91 is not legally eligible to get a job in Indonesia (not now , and neither after he gets a university diploma) .

        (d) Tell us which "free market" is that (I didn't find it searching the internet) ?

        Countries usually make "Trade Agreements" , related to goods mainly (except maybe the EU countries' agreement that also involves people) . For example , I didn't see yet any change in the Indonesian Work Law regarding ASIAN agreement (in which Indonesia participates) .

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        • #19
          Originally posted by marcus View Post


          (a) I meant "not skilled enough" or "unqualified" to legally work in Indonesia . I admit that I was not clear using that word .

          (b) Not adequate enough .
          - Regarding getting a job easily , you should explain how/which rule Marton91 would follow to work legally in Indonesia (you provided nothing) .
          - Regarding buying a property , just stating a foreigner can buy a property and adding a single reference which many people will not bother to see , and if they see it , the reference is very short and don't explain everything . In reality the conditions for a foreigner to buy a Hak Pakai property is not attractive enough , in my view .

          (c) I think that you still didn't understand what I wrote . Morton91 is not legally eligible to get a job in Indonesia (not now , and neither after he gets a university diploma) .

          (d) Tell us which "free market" is that (I didn't find it searching the internet) ?

          Countries usually make "Trade Agreements" , related to goods mainly (except maybe the EU countries' agreement that also involves people) . For example , I didn't see yet any change in the Indonesian Work Law regarding ASIAN agreement (in which Indonesia participates) .


          (a) OK. So you were wrong. Who are we to judge his level of skill? just because (maybe) you're 3x his age doesn't mean you're more skilled than him in all aspects. Skilled enough? that's for the company's HR he's applying to - to judge.

          (b) I've clearly written that if any company wishes to hire him, THE COMPANY should also handle the bureaucracy and paperwork. There are Philippines, Japanese, Indian and Chinese expats here in my company alone, maybe from other countries too, how the hell they get hired I don't really need to know, the point is they're hired, so there must be a way.
          there are private agencies that offer services for companies wishing to hire expats, or foreign workers wishing to work here, one of them is Elson, https://elson.co.id/
          Your personal view regarding hak pakai doesn't represent other's and is irrelevant btw. If Marton really want to live here and own a property, he should find a wife, have kids, buy a property under her name and his kids would someday inherit the property (not necessarily in that order).
          Not bothering to view the referred article is up to you, again doesn't represent other's choice.

          (c) Ok, so who could make it eligible? inform him if you know so much instead of discouraging him

          (d) There are Expats here from other countries and there are Indonesian that become expats in other countries, that's what I meant.
          "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #20
            Dug up something on the internet that might be relevant :

            this is from : https://www.internations.org/indones...or-indonesia-2

            The Challenge of Obtaining a Work Visa for Indonesia

            Navigating through Indonesian bureaucracy can be a confusing process. First of all, it is important to know that you cannot apply for a work visa on your own. It is up to your future employer to obtain one for you.

            Before a company can hire foreigners, they need to obtain a special work permit called an IMTA. This work permit can only be obtained if the company can prove that foreign nationals are needed to fill certain positions, as the Indonesian government has a policy of prioritizing local applicants.

            The company can then submit an application for a limited stay visa (VITAS) on your behalf. First, your future employer will need to gain approval for your application from the Ministry of Manpower. They will then send a letter of recommendation to the General Directorate of Immigration in Jakarta. At this point, a decision will be made concerning your application, and if it is approved, a limited stay visa will be issued by your nearest Indonesian representation overseas. Understanding How Residence and Work Permits Work

            Once you have arrived in Indonesia, you have seven days in which to report to the regional immigration office with your passport and embarkation card in order to get yourself fingerprinted and exchange your visa for a limited stay permit card (KITAS). It usually takes about two weeks for this card to be issued. The original KITAS permit is valid for one year and can be renewed annually for up to five years. After five years you can apply for a permanent stay permit card (KITAP).

            Along with your KITAS card, you will also be issued a Foreigner’s Control and Supervision book (POA). This book tracks any changes in your immigration status, such as change of address, job, marital status, etc. Any dependents that move with you to Indonesia will also be issued a KITAS card and a POA book. Additionally, within 30 days of receiving your KITAS permit, you must register at the local police headquarters.

            After you have received your KITAS card, you can obtain your expatriate work permit (IKTA). Before this can be issued, the Skill and Development Fund (DPKK) fee must be paid. This is an annual fee of 1200 USD that companies employing expatriates must pay, which is used for the training of Indonesian citizens. A receipt of payment of the DPKK and your company’s IMTA must be submitted with your IKTA application.
            "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #21
              Finding work for young "wishing to be expats" in this country ,without relevant experience and qualifications is well nigh impossible, indonesia is no different to many developing countries , with all the usual problems you might expect ,infrastructure , bureaucracy , etc etc etc , with the added benefit of getting woken up at 4 am or earlier , .

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by abdinegoro View Post
                (a) OK. So you were wrong.

                (a1) Who are we to judge his level of skill? just because (maybe) you're 3x his age doesn't mean you're more skilled than him in all aspects. Skilled enough? that's for the company's HR he's applying to - to judge.

                (c) Ok, so who could make it eligible? inform him if you know so much instead of discouraging him

                (d) There are Expats here from other countries and there are Indonesian that become expats in other countries, that's what I meant.

                I will make this last effort to make you understand what I tried to tell you . I will not go further because I think nobody would benefit from this .

                (a) No . I said "I was not clear" because I should be clearer , but by not being clear didn't relevantly affected my position .

                (a1) If a company does not want to comply with the Law/Regulations , yes of course it is a decision of the company . But legally it is the government's Law/Regulations that "judge" who is "skilled enough" . When I said he/she is "not skilled enough" , it was not my personal "judgement" .

                (c) Nobody but himself/herself can make him/her eligible . It is not about discouraging him/her , but about telling him/her what the Law/Regulations state and giving my personal advice about what would be the best for him/her (the original poster) .

                (d) Yes , of course . But these facts don't mean that any foreigner can legally work In Indonesia , or any Indonesia can legally work abroad . Usually countries all over the world have rules to avoid foreign workers taking jobs from locals .
                Last edited by marcus; 2 weeks ago.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Firstly, thank God that was your last.

                  Originally posted by marcus View Post

                  (a) No . I said "I was not clear" because I should be clearer , but by not being clear didn't relevantly affected my position .

                  (a1) If a company does not want to comply with the Law/Regulations , yes of course it is a decision of the company . But legally it is the government's Law/Regulations that "judge" who is "skilled enough" . When I said he/she is "not skilled enough" , it was not my personal "judgement" .

                  (c) Nobody but himself/herself can make him/her eligible . It is not about discouraging him/her , but about telling him/her what the Law/Regulations state and giving my personal advice about what would be the best for him/her (the original poster) .

                  (d) Yes , of course . But these facts don't mean that any foreigner can legally work In Indonesia , or any Indonesia can legally work abroad . Usually countries all over the world have rules to avoid foreign workers taking jobs from locals .
                  (a) Ok, ok, be clearer next time, no one will hold it against you.

                  (a1) Companies allowed to recruit expats usually also has Legal Dept, let them worry about that. If you're hired, you're hired Marton (the poster), don't let other's negative experience discourage you.

                  (c) Yes you've shared your view and discouragement (as was said by Marton). Overall, he needs to prepare everything and know what there is to know before plunging here. But if his first intention is to study, things including what to do to get a job should be clearer after he's here.

                  (d) See you admit it too.
                  Originally posted by marcus View Post
                  Usually countries all over the world have rules to avoid foreign workers taking jobs from locals
                  It's harder, sure, but very far from impossible. And you're wrong again, any foreigner can legally work in Indonesia IF they and the company who wish to employ them meet certain condition (Law/Regulations).
                  "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I would suggest you tell the reality of this country ,warts and all , to any would be expat .

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