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  • #16
    Originally posted by jwalher1 View Post
    .................................................. ......................................as long as we have high speed internet. my concerns are the cost of living there, wich am sure is way low than the US, but how much?. how much do i need to live confortable?. My other concern is that i will ned to hire people upon my arrival in indonesia. this people have to speak english "very well" and have computer skills. .................................................. .....
    Walter
    Cost of leaving , here in Bandung , is quite cheap (I think it is a little higher in Surabaya) . And , I believe , you will find people to hire because , as far as I see , there are so many English schools , and so many internet cafes and computer schools here .
    Internet speed connection is probably enough but reliability may be a concern . Better if you have a secondary backup connection .
    Last edited by marcus; 06-03-09, 11:01.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by marcus View Post
      'as far as I see , there are so many ... internet cafes'
      Sorry Marcus I just couldn't help myself :}
      From what I've seen before I set up my connection at home and was forced to use those places { a few years ago admittedly}..
      the majority of the guys were looking at porn, then sneaking off to the Kamar Kecil for what I still don't know ;} .. whilst the ladies were chatting to their overseas boyfriends and could be heard complaining that their money had run out, and could some more be sent, often times to more than one guy at the same time!
      ..but then I'm sure these experiences in computer use will go a long way towards helping them work as a 'call girl' ;}

      Seriously, many of the English schools are just not worth the time, effort or money spent,
      ..reputable ones like EF or the Aussie one in Surabaya, { I forget the name},which I believe was set up or at least partly funded by the Aus Gov... are a must to obtain a decent education in English that will actually help in obtaining work!!
      My Indonesian brother in law, recently wasted a lot of money trying to save money..he didn't take my advice at first, then finally went to EF and he still can't speak English....
      nah just kidding...
      he had a geat time there and did learn some basic English but he ended up choosing to go os to work instead.. the cost of quality courses are beyond the means of the average Indonesian!
      Last edited by atlantis; 06-03-09, 16:25. Reason: Settings of the quoted paragraph
      IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

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      • #18
        Well Omdafyd , I think that even if the majority do that at the internet cafes and the English schools are not good , due to the number of the people involved , even a minority is a lot of people . And internet cafes also help students who cannot afford to buy a computer . They can practice there for as low as 25 cents of USD per hour .

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        • #19
          Originally posted by marcus View Post
          Well Omdafyd , I think that even if the majority do that at the internet cafes and the English schools are not good , due to the number of the people involved , even a minority is a lot of people . And internet cafes also help students who cannot afford to buy a computer . They can practice there for as low as 25 cents of USD per hour .
          Pak Marcus, I'm confused why you think that because a 'lot of people' go to Internet cafes and/or attend low quality English schools this is a good thing?

          I definately agree that Internet Cafes can help those students who cannot afford a computer to practice their computer skills, however I'm sure that the majority of them are not there for that purpose! Many Indonesian High schools actually do have computers for students to use and develop their skills with, however one is not allowed to use Yahoo messenger for personal fun or to look at porn with the school computers, officially anyway.

          Finally, whilst 25 cents US, that's maby tiga ribu or so depending on the exchange rate, seems a pittance to you and me, did you know that many Indonesian High school students can only afford Nasi Kucing for makaan siang, that's rice and sambal and costs all of lima ratus...
          Thats the problem with living in wealthy areas, one loses perspective of the reality for the majority of Indonesians...
          IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

          Comment


          • #20
            Hello,

            I live in Surabaya/ Malang/ East java. Sometimes, my friend from HRD asked me to look for or share info about job to my almamater (famous univ). If i can help u, let me know. U may see my YM address.

            Comment


            • #21
              Last time, internet is expensive technology in Indonesia. I felt it as student few years ago. But now, in Surabaya, or Malang i can see many internet cafe with competitive price. in other hand with HP we can touch internet easily than before.

              We must know that, slow but sure developing of technology in indonesia is growing up.

              Computer is not expensive think again. Its old now. Now many student bring laptop so they can browse or touch internet in internet area with free.

              So Omdafyd, Marcus, peace....



              Originally posted by omdafyd View Post
              Pak Marcus, I'm confused why you think that because a 'lot of people' go to Internet cafes and/or attend low quality English schools this is a good thing?

              I definately agree that Internet Cafes can help those students who cannot afford a computer to practice their computer skills, however I'm sure that the majority of them are not there for that purpose! Many Indonesian High schools actually do have computers for students to use and develop their skills with, however one is not allowed to use Yahoo messenger for personal fun or to look at porn with the school computers, officially anyway.

              Finally, whilst 25 cents US, that's maby tiga ribu or so depending on the exchange rate, seems a pittance to you and me, did you know that many Indonesian High school students can only afford Nasi Kucing for makaan siang, that's rice and sambal and costs all of lima ratus...
              Thats the problem with living in wealthy areas, one loses perspective of the reality for the majority of Indonesians...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bali-que View Post
                Last time, internet is expensive technology in Indonesia. I felt it as student few years ago. But now, in Surabaya, or Malang i can see many internet cafe with competitive price. in other hand with HP we can touch internet easily than before.

                We must know that, slow but sure developing of technology in indonesia is growing up.

                Computer is not expensive think again. Its old now. Now many student bring laptop so they can browse or touch internet in internet area with free.

                So Omdafyd, Marcus, peace....
                Please note, there is no war going here..just a peaceful exchange of opinions..
                Again, please be realistic..just because you and some of your friends can access the 'net' and afford laptops etc..You should know far better than I, that for the majority of your compatriots! this is just a fantasy!..
                Second hand computer desktops {with crappie specs}, can still command more that satu juta...this is twice the amount my temporary worker recieves for his salary every month, and I am paying him more than his regular boss.

                Some friendly advice, if you want to join in this forum, and your comments are most welcome, please research the meaning of 'sarcasm' especially in relation to humor otherwise you may well be replying furiously in response to many of mine and other peoples posts..

                Salam ;}
                IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by omdafyd View Post
                  Please note, there is no war going here..just a peaceful exchange of opinions..
                  Again, please be realistic..just because you and some of your friends can access the 'net' and afford laptops etc..You should know far better than I, that for the majority of your compatriots! this is just a fantasy!..
                  Second hand computer desktops {with crappie specs}, can still command more that satu juta...this is twice the amount my temporary worker recieves for his salary every month, and I am paying him more than his regular boss.

                  Some friendly advice, if you want to join in this forum, and your comments are most welcome, please research the meaning of 'sarcasm' especially in relation to humor otherwise you may well be replying furiously in response to many of mine and other peoples posts..

                  EDIT...
                  For example...

                  'Biography
                  Smile and let it go in the air'

                  I do, regularly but my 7yo daughter laughs and complains about 'polusi' every time ;}

                  Salam ;}
                  The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters
                  The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters
                  The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters
                  IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by omdafyd View Post
                    Pak Marcus, I'm confused why you think that because a 'lot of people' go to Internet cafes and/or attend low quality English schools this is a good thing?
                    .................................................. .................................................. ..................
                    Thats the problem with living in wealthy areas, one loses perspective of the reality for the majority of Indonesians...
                    Omdafyd , everything is relative , right ? In my view , it is better to play with computer and go to bad English school than nothing at all . I hope some will take benefit of that and even succeed .
                    And I know very well the poor areas . I live in a "kampung" , take public transport , and my Indonesian wife's relatives are ALL poor .
                    Last edited by marcus; 08-03-09, 08:28.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by marcus View Post
                      Omdafyd , everything is relative , right ? In my view , it is better to play with computer and go to bad English school than nothing at all . I hope some will take benefit of that and even succeed .
                      And I know very well the poor areas . I live in a "kampung" , take public transport , and my Indonesian wife's relatives are ALL poor .
                      Yes Marcus, your point is taken and conceded..better something than nothing at all.
                      I am an idealist and try to be a realist also which is of course a contradiction and difficult to do, and I often fail at both..
                      I would sincerely like to see the opportunities here in Indonesia for people to attend Sekola Bahasa Ingris/Computer courses and so on, to be much more widely available and realistically affordable, and not just for those who are born lucky enough to be able to afford a laptop or 3g handphone to access the 'net'...
                      IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by omdafyd View Post
                        .................................................. ....................................
                        I would sincerely like to see the opportunities here in Indonesia for people to attend Sekola Bahasa Ingris/Computer courses and so on, to be much more widely available and realistically affordable, and not just for those who are born lucky enough to be able to afford a laptop or 3g handphone to access the 'net'...
                        I agree totally , Omdafyd . And I have the obligation to agree as , I and my brothers/sisters succeeded because in Brazil , many can reach up to the doctorate degree without paying a cent .
                        Last edited by marcus; 09-03-09, 11:02.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by marcus View Post
                          I agree totally , Omdafyd . And I have the obligation to agree as , I and my brothers/sisters succeeded because in Brazil , many can reach up to the doctorate degree without paying a cent .
                          It used to be the same in Australia many years ago Marcus, until alas, the conservatives and economic rationalists got into power, nowadays a Doctorate will leave you with a huge debt to repay to the Government..
                          The irony is that the current generation of Politicians, all recieved their University education free!
                          IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by marcus View Post
                            I agree totally , Omdafyd . And I have the obligation to agree as , I and my brothers/sisters succeeded because in Brazil , many can reach up to the doctorate degree without paying a cent .

                            We also had a similar program in the US for the minorities (EOP/Equal Opportunity Program aka Affirmative Action) but it later backfired. It was just a couple of decades after the historical "Roe vs. Wade" decision to integrate colleges in the 1960's. In or about 1994 things began to fall apart. It was bound to happen, and Racial Discrimination was at its core, however; it was coined "Reverse Racial Discrimination".

                            About the same time as this was taking place Black school teachers were rallying. This group of Black teachers suggested that the uniformed tests in school were racially biased and several lawsuits sprang up to this effect. What angered me the most, is the fact that their argument negated the work of Frederick Douglas and W.E.B Dubois who were scholars and earned PH. D's when Blacks could have been beaten or hung for learning to read and write. More notable were their efforts to bring "Eubonics" into the classroom. This was a very humiliating time for Blacks for some of our own to even suggest the theory of bringing "Eubonics" into the classrooms. Only shows how far a people can progress and how quicly they can regress. But thats an entirely different topic.

                            In either case, if you attended school, you could receive financial aide and upon graduating as a skilled professional (particularly Doctors and Lawyers etc) Requirements were simple. meet the race or financial criteria. If you were a minority and hailed from a low income earning family, you could have your ENTIRE loan for education forgiven. You were required to open an office/practice and make your services available to low wage earners. By meeting those and a few time constraints, one could have had an Ivy League education...with a price tag of $0usd!!!

                            It was a very good program indeed. But with all good government funded programs it had a flaw. Politics, it became a Political Precipice and somewhere along the lines Congress fumbled the ball. Indonesian government could learn alot from the foolish mistakes we made regarding our educational system and affording ALL people the right to a quality education.

                            Good reading here...

                            http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/docs/Change.html
                            Last edited by b33j915; 10-03-09, 00:48. Reason: added info
                            “Nearly all the best things that came to me in life have been unexpected, unplanned by me.”

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by b33j915 View Post
                              We also had a similar program in the US for the minorities (EOP/Equal Opportunity Program aka Affirmative Action) but it later backfired. It was just a couple of decades after the historical "Roe vs. Wade" decision to integrate colleges in the 1960's. In or about 1994 things began to fall apart. It was bound to happen, and Racial Discrimination was at its core, however; it was coined "Reverse Racial Discrimination".

                              About the same time as this was taking place Black school teachers were rallying. This group of Black teachers suggested that the uniformed tests in school were racially biased and several lawsuits sprang up to this effect. What angered me the most, is the fact that their argument negated the work of Frederick Douglas and W.E.B Dubois who were scholars and earned PH. D's when Blacks could have been beaten or hung for learning to read and write. More notable were their efforts to bring "Eubonics" into the classroom. This was a very humiliating time for Blacks for some of our own to even suggest the theory of bringing "Eubonics" into the classrooms. Only shows how far a people can progress and how quicly they can regress. But thats an entirely different topic.

                              In either case, if you attended school, you could receive financial aide and upon graduating as a skilled professional (particularly Doctors and Lawyers etc) Requirements were simple. meet the race or financial criteria. If you were a minority and hailed from a low income earning family, you could have your ENTIRE loan for education forgiven. You were required to open an office/practice and make your services available to low wage earners. By meeting those and a few time constraints, one could have had an Ivy League education...with a price tag of $0usd!!!

                              It was a very good program indeed. But with all good government funded programs it had a flaw. Politics, it became a Political Precipice and somewhere along the lines Congress fumbled the ball. Indonesian government could learn alot from the foolish mistakes we made regarding our educational system and affording ALL people the right to a quality education.

                              Good reading here...

                              http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/docs/Change.html
                              Politics and Politicians.. pooh!
                              btw...'we' call it, 'positive discrimination', hows that mite!

                              { Ps, 'Mite' is pinched from Mauricio, I love it and will now be using it frequently, thenks mite :}
                              IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jwalher1 View Post
                                thank you Black Adder.
                                We already have a house in surabaya. if it wasnt the case i would go to jakarta instead. can you give me an idea how expensive profecional labor is in indonesia. I need people who speeak english. i willing to provide training.
                                thank you
                                I'm assuming you don't mean that *you* will provide English training?

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