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Please help! Deportation question

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  • Please help! Deportation question

    Hi, I overstayed my visa and cannot afford the fine. This means that I will be deported. My question is whether this means I have to fly to my home country, as the immigration officer tells me. I don't understand why this matters, and it is not in the translation of the laws that I was shown. The officer told me it is a mistranslation. He says that the Indonesian word 'deportasi' means specifically to return somebody to their own country, whereas the translation only said to leave Indonesian territory. All other translations I can find simply tranlate it to deportation, not 'deportation to home country'. However, I have searched everywhere online and cannot find a single mention of this or a translation. I really think that the guy is mistaken.

    I have a flight booked to Bangkok on Saturday. I cannot afford to buy a flight back to the UK. Why does it even matter to Indonesia where I am so long as I am not in Indonesia?

    Please can somebody who speaks Indonesian, perhaps check the definition of 'deportasi' in an Indonesian dictionary or similar? Thank you very much.

  • #2
    Deportasi means deportation, and deportation means returning somebody to his/her country. If you are deported you will be sent to your home country.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by joe12345 View Post
      (1) ... My question is whether this means I have to fly to my home country, as the immigration officer tells me. I don't understand why this matters, and it is not in the translation of the laws that I was shown ... I really think that the guy is mistaken .

      (2) I cannot afford to buy a flight back to the UK ...

      (1) I also could not find anything in the Law/Regulations that specific states that .
      From https://www.academia.edu/21940787/Pe..._Internasional (sorry I could not copy/paste) , it seems it is an usual international procedure to send the person to his/her home country , except in certain conditions (I could not understand as the article is in Indonesian and I could not translate it) .

      (2) All cases we heard here in the Forum were of people sent home . In addition , the information we got is that the foreigner will stay detained until he/she finds a way to buy his/her own ticket home . According to PP no.31 , year 2013 , Article 214 , the foreigner can stay detained for 10 year maximum , when waiting to be deported .


      From https://www.quora.com/Legally-could-...n-home-country
      ["Legally, could an immigrant be deported to a country other than his own home country?"
      Simon Pierre wrote : "That?s a good question. In theory it shouldn?t be possible, but if the third country allows these alien citizens to enter their territory, then nothing would stop that from happening since each country decides who to accept into its soil. West and Central African are deported to Morocco, Lybia and Niger everyday, regardless of their nationality. The only condition is that the receiving end allows it to happen, normally in exchange of money, unsurprisingly."

      Daniel Baker (Law graduate) wrote : "It is possible in some cases, mainly when the alien has obtained permanent residence in a country where he?s not a national. In U.S. Immigration Court, it is routine at the master calendar hearing for the judge to ask the alien to name a ?country of removal? that he prefers if he can?t show a legal right to remain in the United States. If the alien names a country other than his home country, and can show he has permanent residence in that country, the judge may agree to order him removed there instead of his home country if the alien loses his case.This also sometimes comes up in asylum cases .....]
      Last edited by marcus; 3 weeks ago.

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      • #4
        Thanks for your replies, especially your detailed and thoughtful response, Marcus. Centurion, thanks for attempting to provide clarity but I presume you are not a native English speaker so not helpful in the end. In English, deportation means simply to remove a person from a country, without specifying where to. Deportasi, from the Indonesians I have asked, does seem to include the clause 'to their own country'.

        However, it is a clear oversight to not have specified this in the English translation of the legislation. All the blogs and even embassies I have checked copy Indonesia's lead with the incomplete translation of deportasi - deportation. Deportasi actually means 'deportation to one's own country'.

        If you're interested, I've been able to find out that the decision about which country to deport you to depends on a lot of different factors, but is essentially the decision of the particular county's immigration - there is not an international consensus. It is quite rare that a country will give you an option but they do, especially in situations like mine where there was not a crime committed. Unfortunately, Indonesia appears to be keen to deport to the person's home country. The fact that this happens if I cannot afford a fine, and then they make me pay for the $750 flight rather than the $100 flight, which I of course cannot afford, is frustrating. Not to mention unnecessary. Why does Indonesia care if I go to Thailand or UK, if Thailand nor UK care?

        Thanks anyway.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by joe12345 View Post
          Thanks for your replies, especially your detailed and thoughtful response, Marcus. Centurion, thanks for attempting to provide clarity but I presume you are not a native English speaker so not helpful in the end. In English, deportation means simply to remove a person from a country, without specifying where to. Deportasi, from the Indonesians I have asked, does seem to include the clause 'to their own country'.

          However, it is a clear oversight to not have specified this in the English translation of the legislation. All the blogs and even embassies I have checked copy Indonesia's lead with the incomplete translation of deportasi - deportation. Deportasi actually means 'deportation to one's own country'.

          If you're interested, I've been able to find out that the decision about which country to deport you to depends on a lot of different factors, but is essentially the decision of the particular county's immigration - there is not an international consensus. It is quite rare that a country will give you an option but they do, especially in situations like mine where there was not a crime committed. Unfortunately, Indonesia appears to be keen to deport to the person's home country. The fact that this happens if I cannot afford a fine, and then they make me pay for the $750 flight rather than the $100 flight, which I of course cannot afford, is frustrating. Not to mention unnecessary. Why does Indonesia care if I go to Thailand or UK, if Thailand nor UK care?

          Thanks anyway.
          You are right, word deportation is of French origin and means to bring out something or somebody. Same should mean in Indonesian, and it is defined as such in the Immigration Law (Art.1.36 of the Immigration Law: "Deportation shall mean forcible action to expel the Foreigner out of the Indonesian Territory.")

          The reasoning of the Indonesian government is that your home country would for sure accept you, while others maybe would not, and could send you back to Indonesia. I.e. I think Singapore denies entry to persons with deportation stamps from other countries, and they would send you back where you came from, in this case, Indonesia.

          Law on Immigration, in explanatory section, mentions deportation to third countries is possible if they are ready to receive you, and probably Indonesian immigration does not want to go into the risk from the reasons mentioned above. So if you can prove that the country where you go will accept you for sure, should be possible.

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          • #6
            I am sorry for the situation that you are facing but please remember that no matter what the reason is, you are the one ultimately responsible. Indonesian laws are written in Indonesian for the purpose of governing Indonesia. A direct translation to another language is not guaranteed and is subject to interpretation by the enforcing party. If you didn't overstay your visa, there would be no problem. While I understand that money issues can sometimes happen, the Indonesian government (or any other government) is not obligated to do anything other than enforce the laws of that country. Onward travel to a foreign country is an option when you are not in violation of immigration laws. However that is no longer the situation. I hope that everything works out OK for you but in the future it might be easier if you know and follow the rules of the country that you are visiting.

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            • #7
              If you do manage to get deported to Thailand be aware that immigration there can request to see your onward ticket out of Thailand, as well as demonstrate you have a minimum of 10,000 baht in cash or in your bank, in order to receive the 30 day visa on arrival (?275.00 GBP). If anything I would make sure you have your onward ticket booked in advance as you may not be able to even board the plane if the person who checks you into your flight is a bit savvy

              sorry to hear about your predicament. Maybe it is time to get back to the UK. The Thai?s do not like people working there without a work permit and you not having enough cash to meet the minimum requirements is a red flag you will be attempting to do some kind of work.

              all the best and hope you can sort it out

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