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Marrying Indonesian in need of clarification

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  • Marrying Indonesian in need of clarification

    Hi, All Great feed back from this great forum.

    Edited here again.m5pm today 27/3.


    I Have been in a relationship for three years.
    Wishing now to marry my GF an Indonesian.
    She is in business here in Jkt for the last 10 years, and wishes to continue as its rather large business, expanding every year.

    I am willing and want to move here and be based here in JKT going forward.


    Both Christian.


    Not sure whether to Marry here in Indo or Australia.

    Been with her on a number of overseas trip to Japan now five times and Australia twice.

    She does not want to live in Australia but may change over time in 10 years etc.......

    I'm Australian 53yo and so a few questions come to mind.

    I have had a meeting with a Highly experienced recommended Lawyer.
    Lawyer is Independant completely away from Both of us.

    1/ Wife to be, requires to keep her status as SINGLE ON ID CARD ,
    to be entitled to own property in her own name which is the case, run her business as she pleases and continue too enter into loans etc when needed, due to Business operations will require loans or equipment purchases., including buying more premise etc in the future . ID card Single? As she will not answer to me as a foreigner or need my approval.

    2/ Continue the Business as it employs near 100 pax. Therefore continue as the owner etc expand it , borrow capital from Bank etc does not need husband permission as I m foreigner.

    3/ Gf has a six year old daughter from an out of web lock relationship.

    4/ Pre nap agreement, this I believe is a must do.?

    Does it need registering here in JKT.?
    But does it require to be registered?
    If so how does this affect GF wife to be status of SINGLE on ID to continue making her own decisions to do with Business?


    5/ Treatment of daughter. In the future and possible a new born in the future if possible.

    6/ My business is commercial property in Australia and collection of rent, so have time to reside here in Indo JKT and travel back 6 times a year or when needed as we agree on this.

    My Travel like this does it red flag me every time I exit and enter. Visa for my self.

    7/ Property purchase or Lease purchase by Myself can only be for USER Not Freehold, is this best through a or only via a PT PMA ?
    EXAMPLE Maybe Bali lease on a VILLA as a business. So assets going forward are treated on a 50% 50 % basis, but only if listed in a Pre or Post Nap ? agreement? Or assumed 50 50. Foriegner cannot own freehold.

    A check list of what to do would be most helpful.

    Australia process can be started by lodging a form of Intent to marry.

    Cheers Bronte
    Last edited by brontebeachsands; 3 weeks ago. Reason: Just fine tuning my points. The help so far is extyremely helpful and appreciated

  • #2
    Originally posted by brontebeachsands View Post
    Hi, All hope to hear some feed back from this great forum.

    0. Not sure whether to Marry here in Indo or Australia.

    0.1 She does not want to live in Australia but may change over time.

    1. Wife to be requires to keep her status as to be entitled to own property in her own name run her business as she pleases and enter into loans etc when needed due to Business operations require, including buying more premise etc in the future . ID card Single?

    2. Continue the Business as it employs near 100 pax. Therefore continue as the owner etc.

    3. Gf has a six year old daughter from an out of web lock relationship.

    4. Pre nap agreement, this I believe is a must do.

    4.1 But does it require to be registered?

    4.2 If so how does this affect GF wife to be status to continue making her own decisions to do with Business?

    5. Treatment of daughter. In the future and possible new born in the future if possible.

    6. ..., so have time to reside here in Indo JKT and travel back 6 times a year as we agree on this.

    6.1 Travel like this does it red flag me?

    7. Property purchase or Lease purchase by Myself is via a PT PMA ?

    7.1 etc Bali lease as a business or Commercial Property in JKT?

    7.2 So assets going forward are treated on a 50% 50 % basis but only if listed in a Pre or Post Nap ? agreement?

    8. A check list of what to do would be most helpful.

    9. Australia process can be started by lodging a form of Intent to marry.

    Cheers Bronte

    0. I would marry where it is the easiest.

    0.1 Both of you shouldn't change nationality. That way you can live in Indonesia as your partner can be your sponsor and your partner can live in Australia as you can be her sponsor.

    1. With a prenup you can do all this.

    2. No problem when she would marry you.

    3. I don't understand what you your question.

    4. Yes. For your partner to be able to own property in Indonesia.

    4.1 Yes it does. You need to register it at the Catatan Sipil.

    4.2 You put all the things which are important to you in the prenup. Your partner business, properties and daughter will not be effected legally by the marriage if everything is written in the prenup. Speak to a notary.

    5. Your partner's daughter will still be her daughter. In case of a divorce, you will have little chance to get her daughter. New children can have both nationality. You need to get them a birth certificate and report them to immigration. You can take arrangement in your prenup about your new children or not. If not, this means going to court about the children in case of a divorce.

    6. After marriage you can get a KITAS sponsored by spouse and get a multiple entry permit. You also can get a VOA every time you travel to Indonesia and extend it if you don't stay longer than 2 months in Indonesia.

    6.1 No.

    7. As a foreigner you can't own property. (Except in Batam I believe. not sure about Batam)

    7.1 I don't understand what you mean.

    7.2 Foreigner can't own property in Indonesia. So property owned/purchased after marriage in Indonesia is 100% your partner's. I don't know about Australian law and regulations, but in general in a prenup you can put anything you like. Split the Australian property 50 - 50, or your partner doesn't get any of the property owned in Australia. In case of a divorce what is agreed upon in your prenup will be executed.

    8. If you want to marry in Indonesia, read this thread
    http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...donesian-nikah

    As you are Christians, go to the Catatan Sipil instead of the KUA.

    9. Pick a country to marry and register your marriage in the other country. Don't marry in both countries as Indonesia will see it as polygamie, although marrying the same woman.

    Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by brontebeachsands View Post
      1/ Wife to be requires to keep her status as to be entitled to own property in her own name run her business as she pleases and enter into loans etc when needed due to Business operations require, including buying more premise etc in the future .

      1.1/ ID card Single?

      2/ Continue the Business as it employs near 100 pax. Therefore continue as the owner etc.

      3/ Gf has a six year old daughter from an out of web lock relationship.

      4/ Pre nap agreement, this I believe is a must do.

      4.1/ But does it require to be registered?

      4.2/ If so how does this affect GF wife to be status to continue making her own decisions to do with Business?

      5/ Treatment of daughter. In the future and possible new born in the future if possible.

      6/ ... Travel like this does it red flag me?

      7/ Property purchase or Lease purchase by Myself is via a PT PMA ?

      7.1/ etc Bali lease as a business or Commercial Property in JKT?

      7.2/ So assets going forward are treated on a 50% 50 % basis but only if listed in a Pre or Post Nap ? agreement?

      1/ According to the Indonesian Marriage Law , everything owned before the marriage continue the same way after the marriage .
      For her to later buy "Hak Milik/Full Ownership" property and open small/medium Indonesian business there must be a prenup/separated wealth .

      1.1/ After marriage > ID card as "married" .

      2/ No problem . See 1/ above .

      3/ No problem .

      4/ Prenup / separated wealth . See 1/ above .

      4.1/ Some members registered together with the marriage certificate at Kantor Catatan Sipil , but I don't know any Regulation stating that .

      4.2/ No problem . Civil status "married" .

      5/ No problem . If you want to adopt her you will need to go to Court . New born , normal (can have dual citizenship , for that you must request at Kantor Imigrasi) .

      6/ No problem . Many visa options .

      7/ Foreigners cannot buy/own Indonesian "Hak Milik/Full Ownership" property . Can buy (only one residential) "Hak Pakai" (a kind of lease) property . PT PMA does not help in this subject .

      7.1/ In your name , no commercial/business property is allowed . Business in your name only under PT PMA (PMA cannot own Hak Milik property too) .

      7.2/ No prenup means joint ownership (50% & 50%) of anything bought during the marriage . If with a prenup/separated wealth for her to buy Hak Milik and small/medium business , then each of you own everything separated .


      http://www.expat.or.id/info/gettingm...indonesia.html (rules for marriage in Indonesia and abroad)
      http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html
      http://www.expat.or.id/info/familylaw.html
      http://www.expat.or.id/info/marriage...lications.html
      http://www.expat.or.id/info/prenuptialagreement.html (about the prenup/separated wealth for buying Indonesian property)

      http://www.expat.or.id/info/buyingproperty.html (about buying property)
      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...-house-in-indo (rules of Hak Pakai for foreigners)
      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...41286-land-law (about Hak Pakai for foreigners)

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you to contributors for such an excellent replies. lots of reading.

        In any A PreNap agreement is a must.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi,
          Just further information.
          My wife to be is now intent in Marrying done in Australia. This is fine.
          Pre naps being done and documents provided to Lawyer to write it up with our agreed conditions.

          So far So good.

          My wife to be still wishes to have her Status un changed and left as Single.

          I have no issue with this and agree with her. BUT what is the consdsequeces ???

          Yes only married in Australia and only once. Agree with that.

          What Visa to get?

          Pre nap held bye all parties and signed etc. But not put to the court as Wife insisted on SINGLE Status on ID card.

          Thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by brontebeachsands View Post
            (a) ... My wife to be still wishes to have her Status un changed and left as Single.
            ... BUT what is the consequences ???

            (b) Yes only married in Australia and only once. Agree with that.

            (c) What Visa to get? ...

            (a) With her identity card and family card (KTP & KK) not updated may cause problem for you to get the Indonesian residence visa/permit (VITAS , KITAS/e-ITAS) .
            Did you explain her that with the prenup/separated wealth , her businesses will run like she was a single woman ?

            (b) Don't forget to "register" the Australian Marriage Certificate at an Indonesian Embassy in Australia , and later "register" it again in Jakarta's Kantor catatan Sipil (City's Civil Registry) , supposing you will live in Jakarta .

            (c) Your best option (to stay most of the time in Indonesia) is the one year KITAS sponsored by your Indonesian wife . You can get it in 2 different ways :
            (c1) Getting an one year Limited Stay Visa/VITAS sponsored by Indonesian spouse than converting it into a KITAS (first you get a telex visa online , then get the visa at an Embassy , then within 30 days in Indonesia , request the KITAS) ;
            (c2) Getting a 60 days single entry Family Visit Visa sponsored by your Indonesian spouse directly at an Embassy , then converting it into a KITAS within 150 days (considering necessary visa extensions) .


            Comment

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