Visa for my second wife

[Muslim Moe]

Hi everyone,
I'm married to two wives, American, and Indonesia wife.
I have two kids with the American wife.
My questions, how to bring the first wife, and kids to live in Indonesia?
What kinda of visa for them, and the required documents for that?
Thanks in advance

[marcus]

(1) I'm married to two wives, American, and Indonesia wife.

(2) What kinda of visa for them, ... ? ...

(1) Be informed that the Indonesian Law does not allow anyone to have 2 official wifes (see Law below) .

(2) So from (1) above , in order to tell you the best Visa option , we need to know more details about your 2 marriages and also the Indonesian Visa you are using now . See in the link below all the available Visas .


http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html (Indonesian Visas/documents)


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Indonesian Marriage Law (UU no. 1 , year 1974)
Article 3
(1) On principle a man can have only one wife. A woman can have only one husband.
(2) ...

[Muslim Moe]

Right now I'm still in Egypt, because I'm planning to go to jaJap, but I want to send the first wife to live with the kids in Indonesia.
my first marriage, with American citizen, we have been married for 4 years, we have two kids, daughter 2.5 years old, a son 6month, second wife, from indIndone we got married the last month, my marriage with the indonIndon wife was in indIndone.

[marcus]

What I want to know (but please don't write words like "jaJap" , "indIndone" and "indonIndon") :

a) Where did you marry the American , was it an official/legal marriage and was it registered in your country and in USA ?

b) Where did you marry the Indonesian , and was this second marriage official/legal and was it registered in your country and in Indonesia ?

c) If both marriages were official/legal , is this legal in your country ?

d) What is your nationality ?

[Muslim Moe]

I'm apologizing for these strange words, it's just mistake in typing.
1- I got married to the American wife in Egypt and the marriage is registered in Egypt, but we didn't report our marriage in the American embassy in Egypt, so it's official, legal marriage by Egyptian court.
2- also I got married with the Indonesian woman, in Indonesia by the islamic marriage office, so it's official, legal second marriage, but we didn't report our marriage in the Egyptian embassy in Indonesia.
3- my two marriages are official and legal in my country.
4- I'm egyptian.
Thanks so much.

[marcus]

(I) ... I got married with the Indonesian woman, in Indonesia by the islamic marriage office,

(II) so it's official, legal second marriage ...

(I) Did you mean you married at KUA - Kantor Urusan Agama and did you receive 2 "Buku Nikah"/marriage certificates (passport like certificate , one for the husband and one for the wife) ?

(II) Although legal in Egypt , it is illegal in Indonesia if you married at KUA .


So assuming your second marriage is not legal in Indonesia , regarding Indonesian Visa , you , your American wife and your children don't have the Indonesian Visa privileges that the Indonesian Government gives to foreigners with Indonesian relatives . Therefore your options for 1 year Indonesian Visa are very restricted : Work Visa (for work experts) , Student Visa (for university and language students) , Retirement Visa (age 55 and above) , ..

The easier/cheaper short Visa option is a Social Cultural Visit Visa for 60 stay days but it can be extended for up to 180 stay days (in up to 4 monthly extensions) .

In case you use the Indonesian "Buku Nikah" to get Indonesian Visa privileges , you will be committing another crime as stated in the Immigration Law (see below) .


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Indonesian Immigration Law (UU no.6 , year 2011)
Article 123
Shall be punished with imprisonment of five (5) years and fined at most Rp500.000.000, 00 (five hundred million rupiah):

a. any person who knowingly gives a letter or false or falsified data or untrue statement with intent of obtaining Visas or Stay Permit for himself/herself or others;

b. any foreigner who deliberately use the Visa or Stay Permit , as referred to in item a above , to enter and / or stay in Indonesia.

[Shaheed Griffin]

(1) Be informed that the Indonesian Law does not allow anyone to have 2 official wifes (see Law below) .

(2) So from (1) above , in order to tell you the best Visa option , we need to know more details about your 2 marriages and also the Indonesian Visa you are using now . See in the link below all the available Visas .


http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html (Indonesian Visas/documents)


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Indonesian Marriage Law (UU no. 1 , year 1974)
Article 3
(1) On principle a man can have only one wife. A woman can have only one husband.
(2) ...

I know a foreigner and a dozen or so locals with more than one wife and all are official and have Buku Nikkah for all their wives. The foreigner is Egyptian. The way this works with foreigners is you get the no impediment to marriage letter like you would the first wife and marry. So this would require holding a foreign passport that allows polygamy or being married legally in your home country that allows polygamy. You would have to go to the shariah court and the first wife must agree to you remarrying. If she does it's pretty simple from there on out. Probably would have to prove income and some other things aswell. It is absolutely legal to have multiple wives in Indonesia aslong as you go through the proceedure. Having said that this means people from countries that do not allow polygamy basically can not do this unless they have dual citizenship. I would suggest asking the Indonesian embassy in Egypt what you should do with this matter. They will either help you or not. Maybe have your Indonesian wife call without giving her name. If you somehow can't legally do this I would suggest just staying in Egypt that would recognise your right to polygamy under the law.

[marcus]

(i) ... It is absolutely legal to have multiple wives in Indonesia aslong as you go through the proceedure ...

(II) ...The way this works with foreigners is you get the no impediment to marriage letter like you would the first wife and marry ...

(III) You would have to go to the shariah court and the first wife must agree to you remarrying ...

(I) You are right that the Indonesian Law allows , but your information is not complete . Sorry for my own error in my former post above .

(II) Just doing that it would be illegal , in my view .

(III) In my view , if the foreigner wants to get the second marriage in Indonesia , he/she should get approval from an Indonesian Court , in my view . And it is not only about getting agreement from the wife(s) . See the Law details below .

Indonesian Marriage Law (Law no.1 , year 1974)
Article 3
(1) ...
(2) The court, can give permission to a husband to have more than one wife if desired by the parties concerned .

Article 4
(1) In the event that a husband will have more than one wife, as stated in Article 3 paragraph (2) of this Law, he must submit an application to the Court in the area where he lives.
(2) The court referred to in paragraph (1) of this article only gives permission to the husband will marry more than one if:
a. the wife cannot carry out her obligations as a wife;
b. the wife gets a disability or an incurable disease;
c. the wife cannot give birth to offspring.

Article 5
(1) To be able to submit an application to the Court as referred to in Article 4 paragraph (1) This law must meet the following conditions:
a. approval from wife(s);
b. the certainty that the husband is able to guarantee the necessities of life of their wives and children;
c. there is a guarantee that the husband will be fair to their wives and children.
(2) ...

[marcus]

So returning to OP ,
Muslim Moe , did you get permission from an Indonesian Court in order to marry your second (Indonesian) wife in Indonesia ?

[marcus]

Compilation of the Indonesian Islamic Law (translated by Google)
Article 56
(1) A husband who wants to have more than one wife must get permission from the Religious Court.
(2) Submission of a permit application referred to in paragraph (1) is carried out according to the procedure as stipulated in Chapter VIII of the Government Regulation No.9 of 1975.
(3) Marriage with a second, third or fourth wife without permission from the Religious Court does not have legal force.

Article 57
The Religious Court only gives permission to a husband who will be married more than one woman if:
a. the wife cannot carry out the obligation as a wife;
b. the wife gets a disability or an incurable disease;
c. the wife cannot give birth to offspring.

Article 58
(1) In addition to the main requirements referred to in article 55 paragraph (2), to obtain the Religious Court permission, the conditions specified in Article 5 of Law No.1 year 1974 must also be fulfilled namely:
a. the consent of the wife;
b. there is certainty that the husband is able to guarantee the necessities of life of the wifes and children .
(2) ... the approval of the wife or wives can be given in writing or by letter, but even though there has been a written agreement, this agreement must be confirmed with the verbal agreement of the wife on the Religious Court session .

[marcus]

(x) ... , some of the translation is wrong.

(y) yes we can have more than one wife alhamdulillah...

(x) So show us the correct translation .

(y) Yes , Indonesian Law & Indonesian Islamic Law allow having more than one wife , but under the conditions mentioned above .

[marcus]

Those are basic conditions of shariah law mentioned in surah An Nisa in the Quran ... Every Islamic country uses these same principals.

First let me ask , why you didn't wrote the correct translation ? You mentioned "... some of the translation is wrong ..." but doesn't want to show us which part is wrong ?

About what you wrote above , I guess you don't know the difference between the Quran and the Indonesian Laws/Regulations .
Each country makes its own Laws/Regulations , so for example the Indonesian Laws/Regulations are different from the Egyptian Laws/Regulations , even though the 2 countries have the same Quran .
And for a local person or a foreigner to do things legally in a specific country , he/she must do things according to this specific country's Laws/Regulations .

In other words , the discussion in this thread is about the legal situation , therefore we need to focus on the Laws/Regulations .

[Jhizkawet]

You can only have one wife in Indonesian Law. Your country might allow you to have 2 official partner but not in Indonesia. Did your first wife know that you marry the second one? And how you married the second one without presenting divorce paper first? If they found out about this...your marriage will be dismissed in the law of court.

[marcus]

You can only have one wife in Indonesian Law ...

This is what I did think at the beginning too , but if you read the Indonesian Marriage Law (see post no.8 above) you will see that there are some exceptions .

[Jhizkawet]

This is what I did think at the beginning too , but if you read the Indonesian Marriage Law (see post no.8 above) you will see that there are some exceptions .

Basically im agree with you marcus even most of case in law here always have a blackdoor hole. Thats the reason I was asking too if he got divorce paper before he married the second one? Or I should add up...if he also present a permission to marry again if not a divorce paper? I was married to a widow before and he need to present that paper before he can married me...even Im not marriage under Moslem law as he is Moslem.