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married 2 indonesian;many questions on visa;kids

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  • married 2 indonesian;many questions on visa;kids

    Hello everyone.i am married to an indonesian woman and we are doing great together but i have a unique and delicate situation in front of me. am a holder of two nationalities american and also i hold passport of another country and i have been living and residing with my soon to be ex wife and children in a third foreign country where i opened business and where we are now . I have been married for many yerars to her and have 4 children and she is american. a few months ago we decided mutually after some long and repetetive family problems and disdagreements that we should seperate and divorce amicably and mutually and continue to raise our children and look over them together despite everything.. while arranging for the divorce process i met an indonesian woman thru a friend and we communicated through chat etc and i ended up going to indonesia to see herr and meet her family which was a good experience and we married using a simple religious marriage and not the kind of marriage that can be registred in indonesia obviously because i didnt have my legal divorce paper yet from wife and also because of time constraints. right after marriage i took my new wife to the country where i reside which neither of my home countries. after one month she got pregnant and now is a few months away from birth as we live together here.

    the plan is to have two kids with her and 4 years from now move to live in indonesia together with our kids and my kids from first marriage and also their mother and soon to be my ex who also want to be there as well in indonesia so she can be around her children and also because she likes indonesia. in 4 years time my children from soon to be ex wife will be aged 17, 16, 13 and 8. we are still finsihing our divorce legally because she needs her resident card to proceed and we have been delayed for i dont know how long it will be..

    also note that the country where we are does not hv indonesian embassy and hv to travel to a near by country for access to consular services.

    my questions are

    what would be the best route and steps o take now so that 3 to 4 years from now i can be with my indonesian wife in indonesia and with my children from her and as well as with my 4 children of previous marriage as well as their mother to be around also if she still show desire to be there also

    is it ok that she has birth in a few months before we our ability to get a marriage that can register with indonesian authorities. could this be sorted out later when we go to indonesia and or right before we go to indonesia. can we delay the marriage to later. wd that cost us more pain later.

    if i can not obtain american citizenship for the new born child could he she later get indonesian citizenship if we marry here later and register marriage with endonesian embassy in near by country of where we are and they wd give the child a passport to go to indoesnia with.

    will this get more complicated as am working on my divorce and the child might be born before we get it done. or is same as long as we have a child and can later marry and register. what if tyhe rules change in a couple of years or will they apply current rules because we have religious marriage certificate in our hand and will hc a child or two

    how will my children from previous marriage can live with me in indonesia. is through adoption or through sponsorship of my visa of marriage from her or students or what is the best senario. also what about my soon to be ex does she have to search for her own visa to be around us also. could my oldest sun marry indonesian when here reach 20 and sponsor his mother.......

    we are all currently trying to learn some bahasa by the way but its being difficult so far but not bad

    also there is another hurtle. when i moved to the country where i reside now i used my non american passport because it didnt require visa and my residency is based on that passport so if we marry here it will show the non amlerican nationality on the marriage certificate and thjey will not put american on there since am here on my other non american passport and since i will want to be in indonesia on my american passport definetly then i want to know if that will be a problem when i apply for my marriage visa through her on a differtn passport than what the marriage certificate will indicate. is it better to marry in another country for which i can enter with my american passport so the marriage certificate show me as american, maybe stop in singapore before entering indonesia when time comes to go there in a few years.

    i apologize for the length as i said its unique situation and somewhat complex but the good thing is that we happy family and waiting for child and she gets along very very well with my children from my first marriage and they love her. also she became friends with their mother also.

    i despretly need your help i look forwrd to some answers. thanks.


  • #2
    Originally posted by adama733 View Post
    (1) ... is it ok that she has birth in a few months before we our ability to get a marriage ...

    (2) could this be sorted out later when we go to indonesia

    (3) and or right before we go to indonesia ...

    (4) if i can not obtain american citizenship for the new born child could he she later get indonesian citizenship if we marry here later and register marriage with endonesian embassy ...

    (5) what if the rules change in a couple of years or will they apply current rules ...

    (6) how will my children from previous marriage can live with me in indonesia. is through adoption or through sponsorship of my visa of marriage from her or students or what is the best senario.

    (7) also what about my soon to be ex does she have to search for her own visa to be around us also.

    (8) could my oldest son marry indonesian when he reach 20 and sponsor his mother.......

    (9) ... so if we marry here it will show the non american nationality on the marriage certificate and they will not put american on there since am here on my other non american passport and since i will want to be in indonesia on my american passport definetly then i want to know if that will be a problem when i apply for my marriage visa ...

    (10) is it better to marry in another country for which i can enter with my american passport ...

    (1) The only problem I see is that according to Indonesian Law , you will not be considered the child's father as you two are not officially married (even so I think the Indonesian Embassy will not object if you include your family name in the child's name) .

    (2) Yes , you can be officially the child's father if you prove in an Indonesian Court that you are the child's biological father . After that you can request dual citizenship to the child .

    (3) I don't know if Indonesia would recognize a decision of another country's Court in this subject .

    (4) According to the Indonesian Law , this child will be an Indonesia citizen (as the mother is Indonesian citizen) . You can change the child's citizenship (to American) anytime you want , but if you do that the child will not be considered Indonesian anymore [other option is in (2) above] .

    (5) I am not a lawyer , but in this subject I believe the child can benefit from any new rule (although I don't think the rule will change soon) .

    (6) Assuming you are officially their father , you can sponsor them for the same Indonesian Visa you hold , until their age of 18 if unmarried .

    (7) You cannot sponsor her . She will be on her own .

    (8) No .

    (9) For Indonesia , if you are officially married with an Indonesian you are eligible to a long Visa/Stay Permit sponsored by the Indonesian spouse (regardless of the passport thing or your nationality in the marriage certificate) .

    (10) Doesn't matter . But if you marry outside Indonesia you will need to register the marriage certificate in an Indonesian Embassy at the country you marry + register it again in the Indonesian city where you intend to live .


    -------------------------------------------------------


    UU no.12 , year 2006 (Indonesian Citizenship Law)
    Article 4
    Is an Indonesian citizen :
    ......
    (g ) any child born outside of a legal marriage from an Indonesian citizen mother ;
    ......

    Article 5
    (1) A child of Indonesian citizenship born outside legal marriage, not yet 18 (eighteen) years old and unmarried , if is legally recognized by his/her foreign father , remains an Indonesian citizen .
    (2) ...

    Article 6
    Indonesian child under items c, d, ,h, and l of Article 4 and Article 5 may get dual citizenship until the age of #18 or at marriage , when has to decide for just one of the 2 citizenships .
    #Poster's Note : decide between 18 until 21 y.o.


    -------------------------------------------------------


    UU no.1 , year 1974 (Indonesian Marriage Law)
    Article 43
    (1) A child born outside of marriage only has a civil relationship with his/her mother and his/her mother's family .
    (2) ...


    -------------------------------------------------------


    http://www.expat.or.id/info/gettingm...indonesia.html (Marrying in Indonesia or abroad)
    http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html (dual citizenship , middle of the page)
    http://www.expat.or.id/info/familylaw.html
    http://www.expat.or.id/info/marriage...lications.html
    http://www.expat.or.id/info/prenuptialagreement.html (about the prenup/separated wealth for buying Indonesian property)
    Last edited by marcus; 05-09-18, 15:03.

    Comment


    • #3
      as i said we live in thrid countr and now my indonesian wife will give birth in 5 months. our marriage in indonesia was religious only and we have certificate for that. which i know does not serve for authorotoes there but we have something nonetheless. i am stilli waiting for my divorce papers from my first wife . my question is , is it critical to try to have them done befoe she give birth so that we marry before the birth or it is ok to let he devorce papers run their course even if get them after her giving birth then we will marry get letter of no impediment etc and register the marriage with indonesia embassy...but ouur child wd hv alreadyy be born so wd that cauuse complication for processing his indonesian passport etc..thats my question. look forward to some answers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by adama733 View Post
        (x) ... is it critical to try to have them done before she give birth so that we marry before the birth ...

        (y) ... so wd that cauuse complication for processing his indonesian passport etc..thats my question.

        (x) Depends on your point of view .

        As I said , under Indonesian Law , if you don't marry officially before the child's birth , the child will have the Indonesian birth certificate stating only the mother's name (your name cannot be in it) . So if you want the child to be officially yours and/or get dual citizenship (Indonesian & American , for example) , you will have to spend more money and time because the Indonesian Law requires you to go to an Indonesian Court to prove you are the child's biological father (before the child's age of 18 or before his/her marriage) , or go to Court to adopt the child (before the child's age of 5) . Getting dual citizenship will require additional procedure as usual .

        (y) No .
        Last edited by marcus; 28-09-18, 09:26.

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        • #5
          in the country where we are and where the child will be born they will put the father name in the official birth certificate of the child with official local marriage which by the way does not require any cert of celibacy only a resident card. will that help for later when we try to get the child indonesian passport and for going to live in indonesia in a couple of years etc...i know eventually we will marry according to endonesia oddicial law etc but thats after i get my divorce papers from my wife...but at least we can go to indonesia with both our names in the birth certificate of the child..any thoughts please

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by adama733 View Post
            (a) ... with official local marriage which by the way does not require any cert of celibacy ..

            (b) .. will that help for later when we try to get the child indonesian passport and for going to live in indonesia in a couple of years etc...

            (a) I don't know the Law of this country but be informed that you will be doing something illegal under the Indonesian Law . I don't recommend anyone to do something that is illegal in the country he/she intend to live later .

            (b) I don't know and I don't want to know .
            Last edited by marcus; 07-10-18, 21:42.

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