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  • Childs dual citizenship - options

    CHILDS DUAL CITIZENSHIP - OPTIONS WHEN AGED 18 - 21

    Q. Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of this who can advise. It seems as if there is only one option if the child wishes to remain in Indonesia.

    1. Take WNI that needs no further explanation.

    2. Retain WNA does not paint such a clear picture, a free of charge open ended KITAP sounds wonderful, but is it? If there is the same restrictions about working in Indonesia as an WNA who simply lives here, Then it is not a serious option and would make things much more difficult for a child to live by their own means.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kelvyn View Post
    CHILDS DUAL CITIZENSHIP - OPTIONS WHEN AGED 18 - 21

    Q. Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of this who can advise. It seems as if there is only one option if the child wishes to remain in Indonesia.

    1. Take WNI that needs no further explanation.

    2. Retain WNA does not paint such a clear picture, a free of charge open ended KITAP sounds wonderful, but is it? If there is the same restrictions about working in Indonesia as an WNA who simply lives here, Then it is not a serious option and would make things much more difficult for a child to live by their own means.
    I think you've answered your own question.
    1. If a dual-citizen Indonesian, at age 21, chooses to be a WNI then they have to relinquish their foreign citizenship.
    2. If the same person chooses to be a citizen of the foreign country they will effectively lose their RI citizenship and have to enter Indonesia the same as any other foreigner....with a visa.

    These are the only two options...I know it seems unfair but that's Indonesian law.

    My wife was born in Indonesia, went to school in Indonesia, worked in Indonesia and, after marriage over 30 years ago and both of us taking Canadian citizenship, she is a foreigner in her own country and needs a visa to live in RI. If she wishes to recover her WNI status she will have to revoke her Canadian citizenship.
    On the other hand I still maintain both Canada and UK citizenship rights.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kelvyn View Post
      ... 2. Retain WNA does not paint such a clear picture,

      (a) a free of charge open ended KITAP sounds wonderful, but is it?

      (b) If there is the same restrictions about working in Indonesia as an WNA who simply lives here, ...

      2. Indonesian government made it very clear .

      (a) No . But I think the important point in that is not the cost of the KITAP but instead , what one is allowed to do with it .

      (b) Not exactly the same . He/she have more work options than an usual foreigner , but just after getting a KITAP sponsored by an Indonesian family member (see below some options) .


      ----------------------------------------

      (free translation from http://percaindonesia.com/catatan-so...-7-maret-2015/ about acceptable work situations for foreigners married with Indonesians stated by Manpower Department's officers)
      [.....
      A) Holders of KITAP ex-Indonesian are allowed to work in the (PT) companies with Work Permit (IMTA) .
      B) Foreigner workers cannot work in two different companies (the same profession or different) EXCEPT investor / commissioner of PT PMA (If one works in three companies , the number of IMTA must also be 3).
      C) If the activities of the foreign worker are in more than 1 place / province then he/she must have inter-provincial IMTA .
      D) Case: Ex-Indonesian (with a KITAP) with cuisine chef background want to open a small café, with a small seating area is classified as a small business and does not require IMTA. When this business grows crowded and large, than it is necessary to have operating permits from the relevant authorities . When the businesses becomes a legal entity, then this foreign worker must have IMTA.
      E) Case: Ex-Indonesian enters Indonesia with Visa-On-Arrival and becomes an investor in a hotel in Bali. Once in a while he/she does work behind the scenes such as checks on the financial control department. With such conditions, it means that he/she has been conducting work in Indonesia and must have KITAS/KITAP and IMTA, because even not all the time he is working .
      F) An ex-Indonesian with KITAP sponsored by Indonesian relative , working from home and having online businesses. Does not have an office and legal business such as PT or PT PMA. Because this foreigner is conducting work even though he only works online so this foreigner must have the IMTA. This foreigner also cannot sign work contracts in Indonesia on behalf of himself .
      G) A foreigner who works and own business as an acupuncturist, must obtain an official recommendation from the local health office before doing business and work activities. If already have a recommendation from the relevant authorities, the foreign must have the IMTA to be able to work in Indonesia .
      H) An ex-Indonesian with KITAP sponsored by Indonesian relative needs an IMTA ? It is to be seen from what the job is , working for a legal entity or not, small or large business .

      CONCLUSION:

      Although the Immigration Law no.6 of 2011 Article 61 states that the ex-Indonesian holder of a KITAP sponsored by Indonesian relative can work and/or do business to make ends meet for him/her and/ for his/her family, but still has to refer back to the Labour Law no.13 year 2003 and Permenakertrans no.12 year 2013, which essentially mean that a foreign worker in a mixed marriage is allowed to work without a work permit/IMTA if in the informal sector, freelance or have a small business which is not a legal entity. When working in a legal entity then MUST have IMTA.]

      Note : IMTA = Work Permit

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you Davita and Marcus for your responses, It gives me a better idea now of where to start. You have probably guessed that the issue is far more complex than just the nationality issue. My daughter is planning to attend a medical university in the UK and return home to Indonesia when she qualifies as a doctor, this could take ten years. So she will be in the UK in the period 18-21 years of age and then some. If she gives up her UK Citizenship it may be difficult for her to study in the UK. Like you Davita I also maintain multiple citizenship rights. I will let you know what happens after my meeting with the Government (IDR) Medical Advisor, He is a relative of a close friend who has offered to help if he can.

        Comment


        • #5
          There is a little bit of a trick that can be done. Surrender the passport to the foreign embassy and get a statement that this has happened. You can then take this back to Indonesian Immigration and it will appear that you have surrendered your foreign citizenship.
          While you're at it, you can also piss off Indonesian immigration the same way that my girlfriend did - "I have to pick a citizenship? Okay do this for me. Think of your mum. Think of your dad. Now, pick ONE of them"


          For the UK situation, is there a way that you can downgrade to PR instead of citizenship?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kelvyn View Post
            ... and return home to Indonesia when she qualifies as a doctor, ...

            I don't know how is the UK's market for doctors , but I guess it is probably better than the Indonesian's market . As I have seen , salary levels in Indonesia is in general , a lot lower than in developed countries , so I would guess that choosing the UK citizenship is the best option for her professional carrier .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Daniel Jordan View Post
              ... you can also piss off Indonesian immigration the same way that my girlfriend did - "I have to pick a citizenship? Okay do this for me. Think of your mum. Think of your dad. Now, pick ONE of them" ...

              Doing that has only negative effect(s) . The Immigration officer(s) is(are) only applying the Law , he/she(they) is(are) not the one(s) who made the Law .

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kelvyn View Post
                Thank you Davita and Marcus for your responses, It gives me a better idea now of where to start. You have probably guessed that the issue is far more complex than just the nationality issue. My daughter is planning to attend a medical university in the UK and return home to Indonesia when she qualifies as a doctor, this could take ten years. So she will be in the UK in the period 18-21 years of age and then some. If she gives up her UK Citizenship it may be difficult for her to study in the UK. Like you Davita I also maintain multiple citizenship rights. I will let you know what happens after my meeting with the Government (IDR) Medical Advisor, He is a relative of a close friend who has offered to help if he can.
                Given those circumstances I'd have no hesitation to do nothing, until there is an official demand, then, totally opt for maintaining UK citizenship.

                No-one can foretell the future but I'd suggest Indonesia has two ways to go...

                1. Grow-up, reject xenophobia, take advantage of the overseas Indonesia diaspora and make provision for them to help Indonesia grow into a modern democracy and booming economy, where it justly deserves to be, given the abundant natural resource....or

                2. Go backwards, allow Sharia Law to prevail, permit corruption and nepotism, and lose more and more educated citizens.

                Either way your daughter would still have a citizenship that has some recognition and merit and, if No.1 prevails, be in a position to take advantage or, if No. 2.......thank her lucky stars for her decision to be free.

                Comment


                • #9
                  (from http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...ndonesian.html , Wed, November 15, 2017)

                  Dual-citizenship teen becomes first to opt for Indonesian

                  Salma Ali Salem Mansoor, has become the first teen holding dual citizenship to become officially Indonesian ... Salma had held dual citizenship from her father Ali Salem Mansoor from Yemen and Indonesian mother Suhanah Ahmad ...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by marcus View Post
                    (from http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...ndonesian.html , Wed, November 15, 2017)

                    Dual-citizenship teen becomes first to opt for Indonesian

                    Salma Ali Salem Mansoor, has become the first teen holding dual citizenship to become officially Indonesian ... Salma had held dual citizenship from her father Ali Salem Mansoor from Yemen and Indonesian mother Suhanah Ahmad ...
                    I hope that Indonesian Immigration don't assume their policy to demand single-citizenship after age 21 is somehow a success.....given this girl's decision..
                    Her other citizenship is from YEMEN....a country in a dire war and conflict.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes Davita , Yemen is not popular at all .

                      I think Kelvyn has many factors to analyze , like the one below . In general , I think that I would choose the country which is the most developed economically/socially/... of the 2 .

                      ---------------------------------

                      (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...%29_per_capita)

                      GDP per capita , IMF/2016
                      ..........
                      25- UK ...... $42'481
                      ..........
                      97- Indonesia ....... $11'720
                      ..........
                      160- Yemen ....... $2'375

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: post # 11 by Marcus

                        I agree with you that Kelvyn's daughter should look at all the possibilities for her own future but I get, from Kelvyn's posts, that his daughter considers Indonesia as her home.
                        It just seems to me RI loses so much talent by having this xenophobic single-citizenship issue.

                        Many countries enjoy the fruits of dual-citizenship so long as there is some control. Philippines (RP) is a good example where it saw how many of it's diaspora had lived abroad, and taken foreign citizenship, but wanted to retire to the Philippines. The RP gov't offered dual-citizenship so long as they re-patriated their pensions etc...which became a great boost to the RP economy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Davita View Post

                          I hope that Indonesian Immigration don't assume their policy to demand single-citizenship after age 21 is somehow a success.....given this girl's decision..
                          Her other citizenship is from YEMEN....a country in a dire war and conflict.
                          Come on - they are making this out as NEWS! It's NEWS that this is the FIRST person to pick Indonesia in a dual citizenship, even though they are rejecting a shitty country for a slightly less shitty one.

                          Doesn't anyone else see that this is an indication of a problem?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Daniel Jordan , I think you are over-reacting , maybe because of your dual citizen girlfriend . Yes , of course it is a problem to people in this condition , but "come on" , look at the other people around the world who have a lot bigger problems .

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