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SosBud > KITAS: Do sponsors have to be the same?!

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  • SosBud > KITAS: Do sponsors have to be the same?!

    Hi all,

    Sorry for the exclamation mark but this is rather urgent as I leave to singapore in 20 hours.

    I'm applying for a Sosial Budaya Visa with my uncle as a sponsor. I'm planning to then convert SOSBUD > KITAS (Ikut orang tua WNI) as my Mother is Indonesian. I know the conversion is only possible within the first 60 days of your SosBud (Immigration told me) as I tried too late when I was there in the past.

    Now my question is:
    • Since my mother will be my sponsor for my KITAS,
      is it going to cause problems with the SOSBUD > KITAS conversion since my Uncle is the SOSBUD sponsor?
    The reason my Mother cannot be both my SOSBUD and KITAS sponsor, is because she is still organizing her KTP and KK as she moved provinces and that will only be finished a few days/weeks after I arrive.


    Thank you
    Last edited by UseJustEnough; 02-11-16, 01:16. Reason: urgent

  • #2
    Originally posted by UseJustEnough View Post
    (1) ... Since my mother will be my sponsor for my KITAS, is it going to cause problems with the SOSBUD > KITAS conversion since my Uncle is the SOSBUD sponsor?

    (2) The reason my Mother cannot be both my SOSBUD and KITAS sponsor, is because she is still organizing her KTP and KK as she moved provinces and that will only be finished a few days/weeks after I arrive.

    (1) Yes , probably it will .

    (2) If she still has a copy of her old KTP , she can sponsor you for the Sosbud , now . Only when you want to convert the Sosbud into a KITAS , her new KK & KTP will be needed . And she will have around 150 days for getting the new KK/KTP , which is the maximum time you can extend the Sosbud (4 extensions) to allow the last 30 days of it for the conversion (not only 60 days as you thought) .

    Comment


    • #3
      But you may find a problem to do the extensions in the new address if the officer who will deal with your process is not "flexible" enough , meaning that the officer will have to accept her old KTP + the Kantor Kelurahan's (or similar) receipt of the new KK/KTP request .

      If the Kantor Imigrasi of the new address doesn't accept the extension request someway , you still may extend the Sosbud in the Kantor Imigrasi of the old address .

      Comment


      • #4
        There is still a small possibility that , in case you choose to go ahead with your uncle sponsorship , the Kantor Imigrasi of your mother's new address accepts changing the sponsor of your Sosbud (from your uncle to your mother) . In some 10 years in this Forum I heard of some 3 persons who succeeded in doing Sosbud sponsor change , but I guess this is less probable to occur than the first option I said above . I once ask my Kantor Imigrasi's officer about the Sosbud's sponsor change and he said it was not possible (the Law and 2 Regulations that I know do not say anything about Sosbud's sponsor change) .

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Marcus!

          Do I need an STM to convert Sosial Budaya > KITAS Parent sponsor?

          I am in Indonesia now and will go get the required documents and start the conversion but going back to what you said:

          (2) If she still has a copy of her old KTP , she can sponsor you for the Sosbud , now . Only when you want to convert the Sosbud into a KITAS , her new KK & KTP will be needed . And she will have around 150 days for getting the new KK/KTP , which is the maximum time you can extend the Sosbud (4 extensions) to allow the last 30 days of it for the conversion (not only 60 days as you thought) .
          It appears the Immigration officers in Bali have lied to me. When I tried converting Sosial Budaya > KITAS last year, they denied it as I was on my 2nd SosBud extension and they told me that in order to convert, I must do it within the first 60 days. Ultimately I went abroad and didn't come back until this year, when I applied again and they said the same thing! So now I just got back from SG with a fresh Sosial Budaya but I am very sad because I no longer have much money to support myself or help my mother due to all these trips. The agent in Singapore confirmed that I don't have to do it in the first two months,

          So is this true and have 2 Immigration officials been tricking me?

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you think I can do this conversion process within 34 days? or is that not a likely scenario?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by UseJustEnough View Post
              (a) Do I need an STM to convert Sosial Budaya > KITAS Parent sponsor? ...

              (b) It appears the Immigration officers in Bali have lied to me ... they told me that in order to convert, I must do it within the first 60 days ...

              (c) Do you think I can do this conversion process within 34 days? or is that not a likely scenario?

              (a) Usually no , but if they ask just comply as it is very easy to get one and it is supposed to be free .

              (b) Either lied or they don't know . See below the Regulation , and I didn't find any limitation to item c of Article 23 . If they insist with that , ask them the specific part of the Regulation that supports their information .

              (c) You can , but the problem is a possible delay due to the communication with Jakarta . You can send the documents (by courier/mail) to Jakarta's Directorate , but sometimes they don't send them back and it is very difficult to call them or send an email . One member of this Forum got this email ([email protected]) from them but another member already tried and it didn't work . If you try to call , they rarely take the call (see my process below - it was a KITAP process , but the problem is the same) .

              http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...-an-Indonesian (my case of KITAS > KITAP , similar to Sosbud > KITAS)


              ----------------------------------


              PerMen no.27 ahun 2014
              Pasal 23
              (1) Izin Tinggal Terbatas dapat diberikan kepada:
              a. Orang Asing yang masuk ke Wilayah Indonesia dengan Visa Tinggal Terbatas;
              b. anak yang lahir di Wilayah Indonesia pada saat lahir ayah dan/atau ibunya pemegang Izin Tinggal Terbatas;
              c. Orang Asing yang diberikan alih status dari Izin Tinggal Kunjungan;
              d. , e. , f. ...

              Comment


              • #8
                I've deleted my reply because I was wrong and got mistaken between an Visa Tinggal Terbatas, and Visa Kunjungan.

                On a side note, where do you even find Indonesian laws? I'm confused between Peraturan Pemerintah, Peraturan Menteri, Undang-Undang, and all the other different terms. How do people like Atlantis even find the laws?
                Last edited by UseJustEnough; 28-11-16, 16:06. Reason: Wrong laws, got mixed up

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by UseJustEnough View Post
                  (I)... , where do you even find Indonesian laws?

                  (II) I'm confused between Peraturan Pemerintah, Peraturan Menteri, Undang-Undang, and all the other different terms.

                  (III) How do people like Atlantis even find the laws?

                  (I) You can find , for example , Immigration rules at www.imigrasi.go.id , "Produk Hukum" . I sometimes also search in the internet . Like : "UU tentang ...." .

                  (II) The Undang Undang is the Law , the higher level , then below comes the Peraturan Pemerintah , then Peraturan Menteri , then ... , if I am not mistaken . If you want to know for sure about a rule , you need to read them all , except if the one(s) above already clarifies (clarify) the specific subject you want to know .

                  (III) This is his post of March 2012 , from http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...ying-for-kitas :
                  [The best source, in my opinion is the website of the Direktorat Jenderal Perundang Undangan. They are quite complete when it comes to Undang-Undang and Peraturan Pemerintah and Peruturan Presiden. However they are average when it comes to Peraturan Menteri and very poor when it comes to decrees passed by the direktorat or badan. Same goes with Peraturan Daerah which number is a joke compared to what it should be.]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi there, sorry I don't get on here much!

                    A few years ago, I was able to convert my KITAS sponsorship. As with the SosBud, there are no regulations forbidding it, but the section chief at Immigration refused me. After many calls, I was finally able to reach someone at DirJenIm who said it's okay to do but, even though the section chief, a real jerk, spoke directly to her, he refused. The person at DirJenIm contacted the KaKanIm so when I went back the section chief was reprimanded and I got the change of sponsorship.

                    It is a bit of a pain in the butt since most KanIm have no experience with it, and I'm sure the same is true for what you want to do, so you're going to have to be politely forceful. Your uncle will have to write a letter stating that he is willing to relinquish his sponsorship of you to your mother, and your mother will need to make a letter saying that she's your sponsor, including being financially responsible for you.

                    UU or Undang-undang are laws.
                    PP or Peraturan Pemerintah are the ordinances and regulations written to support a UU.
                    PM or Peraturan Menteri (but not PerMen hehehe) are regulations produced by a Minister. They are sometimes ignored, especially by people in other ministries despite having the force of law.
                    PD, PerDa or Peraturan Daerah are regional rules. They only apply to the province, county, city or district that wrote them. Fees charged by local departments of the government are sometimes determined by PD.

                    What other terms are you confused by? Can't you ask your family?

                    It isn't always easy to find laws. Atlantis had a lot of connections in the government and got invited to governmental meetings from time to time. I've never been so "fortunate".

                    Never bribe. If you bribe once they'll never forget. Signs saying they are corruption free are for the naive.

                    I wish you success!

                    Claims of having to do it on the original SOSBUD are bogus.

                    Escalate up until you get compliance. Involve the KanWilKumHAM or DirJenIm if you need to.
                    I'm not arrogant or a know-it-all - I'm over-eager to help & not very good at writing humbly. Verify my answers!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Marcus, as always you are such a great help to the forum, just wanted to let you know.


                      ReveurGAM, you are also equally appreciated because of all your help! Now in response to your reply:



                      Originally posted by ReveurGAM View Post
                      Hi there, sorry I don't get on here much!

                      A few years ago, I was able to convert my KITAS sponsorship. As with the SosBud, there are no regulations forbidding it, but the section chief at Immigration refused me. After many calls, I was finally able to reach someone at DirJenIm who said it's okay to do but, even though the section chief, a real jerk, spoke directly to her, he refused. The person at DirJenIm contacted the KaKanIm so when I went back the section chief was reprimanded and I got the change of sponsorship....
                      Always happy to hear news like this. I'm just a 19 year old who unfortunately looks more Bule than your average mixed indo child, it's difficult for me to handle situations like this because the "I'm Indonesian, and more superior than you half casts" mentality kicks in inside some of the immigration officials' heads. Also the "this guy's clueless, so I will make it as hard as possible for him" mentality. Of course my bold statements are more like metaphors, I don't like to stereotype..

                      I find that sometimes I get away with more things pretending to be an innocent Bule, than when I speak indonesian fluently, because most of the time, they feel they have gained more superiority and can hassle me even more knowing fully that I understand all that they are saying, compared to let's say a bule, where they might make things simpler due to the language/cultural barrier.

                      Immigration said I couldn't start the conversion of SosBud>KITAS because it had to be done in the first 2 months of your SosBud and I was on my 2rd extension. As Marcus said, I should ask them which law states that, but I never had the courage because Immigration is usually full and the workers always are sour faced when I take much of their time. I really would like to print out a list of questions (I have quite a few..) and have them answer clearly so I don't always have to go back and forth and disappoint myself for always missing out on something. These are questions I can't find the answers of online.

                      My question to you with my case is:

                      How do I do that? how do I ask politely to be informed in detail about the laws and rules without annoying them?

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Originally posted by ReveurGAM View Post
                        UU or Undang-undang are laws.
                        PP or Peraturan Pemerintah are the ordinances and regulations written to support a UU.
                        PM or Peraturan Menteri (but not PerMen hehehe) are regulations produced by a Minister. They are sometimes ignored, especially by people in other ministries despite having the force of law.
                        PD, PerDa or Peraturan Daerah are regional rules. They only apply to the province, county, city or district that wrote them. Fees charged by local departments of the government are sometimes determined by PD.

                        What other terms are you confused by? Can't you ask your family?
                        I can't ask my family because none of them have married a foreigner except my Mother, and pretty much the majority of family members don't even know such laws or regulations exist. Most Indonesians don't even know the correct procedure with the paperwork for moving provinces or making a passport, and my family are no different.

                        I SO wish for there to be a reformasi sistem pendidikan (so this would be taught in school or some other government institution!) and a reformasi birokrasi. Actually... I wish for a lot of reformation in this country which I love. Unfortunately, it's a country of saving-face and doesn't take much of any form of constructive criticism.

                        Originally posted by ReveurGAM View Post
                        It isn't always easy to find laws. Atlantis had a lot of connections in the government and got invited to governmental meetings from time to time. I've never been so "fortunate".
                        He was a great help with the "insides" of the law, why was he banned? Was it his, uhm, personality? Hahah

                        Originally posted by ReveurGAM View Post
                        Never bribe. If you bribe once they'll never forget. Signs saying they are corruption free are for the naive.
                        I never bribe, and am actually fluent in Indonesian (not so much with the terms for regulations and legal matters..) but my dear (WNI) Mother, on the other hand, is more or less the typical Indonesian that believes this country will never change and bribing is somewhat customary. She tries not to but gets angry at me when I stop her, telling me that I am making everything more difficult (not really).

                        Originally posted by ReveurGAM View Post
                        Claims of having to do it on the original SOSBUD are bogus.

                        Escalate up until you get compliance. Involve the KanWilKumHAM or DirJenIm if you need to.
                        If I'm sure there is a bogus claim, do I show them the law and say this claim isn't stated at all? (this sounds a bit cocky, especially to them)

                        and if I bring it up to the KanWilKumHAM or DirJenIm, how do I do such a thing?




                        Sorry for all the questions and long reply!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by UseJustEnough View Post
                          ... how do I ask politely to be informed in detail about the laws and rules without annoying them? ... and if I bring it up to the KanWilKumHAM or DirJenIm, how do I do such a thing? ..

                          Yes , we need to always be polite and not make the officers feel "uncomfortable" . Make copies of the related Law/Regulations to show them that things are "confusing" or similar .

                          So I suppose the first step should be to ask to talk to the next boss (the boss of the officer telling you wrong things) , then so on ...

                          Here is a partial copy of Atlantis post at http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...-changes/page2 :
                          [For Imigrasi related matters, I would not bother contacting the PTUN, which would be of of no immediate help. Contacting the Kakanim (kepala kantor Imigrasi) or the kepala divisi imigrasi in the Kanwil would work in 99% of the cases. For corruption cases where you can have a proof, the Irjen (Inspektorat Jenderal) Imigrasi in JKT would work fine...] .


                          -------------------------------

                          Just to add some information about Sosbud > KITAS :

                          - In some 10 years in this Forum , you are the first (I know) telling about this "within 60 days" "requirement" .

                          - Some 6 years ago there was even a case where Immigration officers said Sosbud > KITAS should be only possible after 4 months with the Sosbud . This was the real old rule , changed many years before that time .

                          - I myself did Sosbud > KITAS in 2010 , after my 4th Sosbud extension , and after that I saw many other cases of Forum members doing that after the first 60 days . In some cases the foreigners were asked by Immigration to request the KITAS immediately after a Sosbud extension , so giving them 30 days to finish the KITAS process , before the need to do another Sosbud extension .

                          - In 2011 the new Immigration Law (UU6/2011) was issued , new Regulations were issued in 2013 (PP31/2013) , 2014 (PerMen 27/2014) , but this specific subject was not changed , as far as I know .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by marcus View Post
                            So I suppose the first step should be to ask to talk to the next boss (the boss of the officer telling you wrong things) , then so on ...
                            Sorry if this is quite obvious, but do I ask them directly who their boss is? I literally don't know how to ask without making them uncomfortable or feel like a know it all.

                            -------------------------------

                            Originally posted by marcus View Post
                            Just to add some information about Sosbud > KITAS :

                            - In some 10 years in this Forum , you are the first (I know) telling about this "within 60 days" "requirement" .
                            - Some 6 years ago there was even a case...
                            - I myself did Sosbud > KITAS in 2010....
                            I guess Immigration Officials are a strange breed...

                            My situation right now is not very good at all... Because I've been to Singapore three times this year, and gotten a SosBud with an agent each time, I've spent all my money. My Mother is also struggling to get enough for the process again.
                            • The first time I had to leave to SG was my fault, I got dates mixed up and overstayed.
                            • The second time, I wanted to maximize my days before applying to KITAS (to save money), and started the conversion process 1 month before my last SosBud extension, where they told me it's too late, I should do it in the first 2 months, and should now go and get a VITAS 317 instead (haha, right, easier for them)
                            • The third time (now), my money and mother's money is very low and I have just enough money to leave the country to my Passport country, France, a country I've never been to before or speak the language, as I was raised here by my mother. So I'm not sure what to do. My passport is expiring in a few months, so if I were to apply for a new passport (costs quite some money) and then apply for a KITAS, I'm not sure if I have enough. I don't want to get deported so I might just leave and start a new life for a while until I have enough money.
                            Now I'm just trying to help my sister who is WNA and has her KITAS (when an agent helped, a while ago), because hers is expiring 12th December, and she has 11 months on her passport left. Told my mother it's too late to extend, plus you need 18 months for 1 year kitas (right?), but she talked to Immigration who said "you can still apply for KITAS extension, and if you want to renew your passport, we can hold the process" or something along those lines, which sounds very confusing..


                            Ah yes. My life is complicated! If only someone could've taught me this growing up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by UseJustEnough View Post
                              (I) Sorry if this is quite obvious, but do I ask them directly who their boss is? I literally don't know how to ask without making them uncomfortable or feel like a know it all.

                              (II) I guess Immigration Officials are a strange breed...

                              (III) The third time (now), ... I have just enough money to leave the country to my Passport country, France, ...

                              (IV) ... Told my mother it's too late to extend, plus you need 18 months for 1 year kitas (right?), but she talked to Immigration who said "you can still apply for KITAS extension, ...

                              (I) I suppose one can ask "can I talk to your boss ?" or bring a gift and tell the officer that you have a gift to his/her boss and want to give it in person .

                              (II) I don't think so . In my country , government employees usually have no training , so I guess the same happens here .

                              (III) Can you tell us why you had to go to France ?

                              (IV) This time the Immigration is correct . She would need 18 months left in her passport if to apply for an one year Visa . Any extension just needs a legal/valid passport . And be informed that she can apply for the KITAS extension until the day before of the KITAS expiry date (in her case , 11 December) , according to PerMen 27 , year 2014 .

                              Comment

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