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New Manpower Law Requiring Indonesian Language Proficiency Test of Foreign Workers

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  • #61
    Originally posted by nd_eric_77 View Post
    This part blows my mind. The United States has at least 600,000 documented foreign workers at any given time, but only 40% more people than Indonesia has. That is to say nothing of the 12 million+ undocumented workers. And yet people act as if Indonesia were threatened by < 75,000 documented foreign workers???
    From post #53

    "Meanwhile, the use of foreign workers to fix the system and improve the competitiveness of Indonesian workers to withstand the onslaught of foreign workers entering Indonesia, the MOM said it will tighten oversight and enforcement of labor law in accordance with the rules of supervision by labor inspectors at central and local levels, as well as cooperate with the immigration authorities, police , and other related organizations".

    "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
    George Bernard Shaw

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    • #62
      Originally posted by lantern View Post
      From post #53

      "Meanwhile, the use of foreign workers to fix the system and improve the competitiveness of Indonesian workers to withstand the onslaught of foreign workers entering Indonesia, the MOM said it will tighten oversight and enforcement of labor law in accordance with the rules of supervision by labor inspectors at central and local levels, as well as cooperate with the immigration authorities, police , and other related organizations".

      That is just the point... What onslaught??? Seriously, I just do not see that huge of a number of foreigners attempting to come work in Indonesia. The refugee ships from central Asia intentionally steam right past almost the whole of Indonesia on their way to Australia.
      This space is available for rent.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by nd_eric_77 View Post
        That is just the point... What onslaught??? Seriously, I just do not see that huge of a number of foreigners attempting to come work in Indonesia. The refugee ships from central Asia intentionally steam right past almost the whole of Indonesia on their way to Australia.
        This is probably about the ASEAN open market. That's where the concern is. The other side of the test is the typical hypernationalism that is frequently on display.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by akubrahat View Post
          This is probably about the ASEAN open market. That's where the concern is. The other side of the test is the typical hypernationalism that is frequently on display.
          Can they unilaterally require ASEAN citizens to pass a language test.
          "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
          George Bernard Shaw

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          • #65
            This is what Thailand intends to do. It is not confined to Indonesia.

            [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Open Sans]The ASEAN Economic Community does not allow the free flow of skilled labor or service providers. Only certain professions that ASEAN members have mutually agreed are allowed to work freely across country boundaries. All members of the ASEAN have to sign Mutual Recognition Agreements to jointly recognize professional qualifications of its citizens. There has been difficulty in negotiating the agreements. The agreement set a target of fifty-two professions to be liberalized by 2015 but Mutual Recognition Agreements have only been signed for seven professions: engineers, nurses, physicians, dentist, architects, surveyors, and accountants.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Open Sans]While there can be no impediments to foreigners in the AEC professions, those professional have to abide by local regulations. This means that the individuals are required to pass local licensure and certification laws. In Thailand, all of the AEC professions require licensure. The test for licensure is only available in Thai language. This is a serious impediment to most foreign nationals from being licensed or qualifying as a recognized AEC professional in Thailand.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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            • #66
              Originally posted by akubrahat View Post
              This is what Thailand intends to do. It is not confined to Indonesia.

              [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Open Sans]The ASEAN Economic Community does not allow the free flow of skilled labor or service providers. Only certain professions that ASEAN members have mutually agreed are allowed to work freely across country boundaries. All members of the ASEAN have to sign Mutual Recognition Agreements to jointly recognize professional qualifications of its citizens. There has been difficulty in negotiating the agreements. The agreement set a target of fifty-two professions to be liberalized by 2015 but Mutual Recognition Agreements have only been signed for seven professions: engineers, nurses, physicians, dentist, architects, surveyors, and accountants.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Open Sans]While there can be no impediments to foreigners in the AEC professions, those professional have to abide by local regulations. This means that the individuals are required to pass local licensure and certification laws. In Thailand, all of the AEC professions require licensure. The test for licensure is only available in Thai language. This is a serious impediment to most foreign nationals from being licensed or qualifying as a recognized AEC professional in Thailand.[/FONT][/COLOR]
              So it's just a show... saying they welcome development through worker exchange, then making it impossible for foreign workers to comply with local regulations. I would wonder though, why Thailand and Indonesia would exchange [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Open Sans]engineers, nurses, physicians, dentist, architects, surveyors, and accountants[/FONT][/COLOR]. Is there really such a difference in ability between a Thai accountant and an Indonesian one? If you have "more developed" countries taking part, would the flow be one way?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Happyman View Post
                That's a decent wage... Are there openings available? Is this a "selling your body" sort of thing? Because, to be honest, the only thing I am willing to part with is one broken toe. It's still a nice toe though, comes with a rag. Are there openings available for my toe in the mining industry?
                Look for jobs that offer to pay for your kids education at JIS, BIS, etc. If they're willing to shell out 25k a kid for school, they'll often be providing a driver, 3k a month house and a fat paycheck, too.

                Unless it's in oil or mining, you'll probably need some fancy credentials, and most likely work for some big multinational company.

                I'm not much interested in corporate stuff. I'd rather be able to spend most of my time with my family.
                Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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                • #68
                  I heard about the language test being brought in this year and am a little worried by it. I have been here less than a year and haven't learnt much yet as I work with native English speakers and socialise with Indonesians who can speak English, which has made me a little lazy.

                  Does anyone know what level of competence is expected in the testing?

                  Also, I recently heard that some other rules, which have not really been enforced up to now will become more strict. Basically that English teachers will need to have an actual Degree in English language rather than just a teaching qualification, and also that you will be required to get a blood test for drugs and AIDS which needs to be performed in your home country.

                  The drug test seems crazy, do they really expect me to fly to the UK for a blood test and come back again?

                  I don't know how worried I should be about these rules because I had already heard they existed but weren't being followed, but I know some teachers are now looking for work in different countries.

                  Overall I don't see the point of placing these barriers to employment. As a country, if you have qualified native speakers who are willing to come to your country and teach your children it should be embraced. Making the laws more strict will deprive the students of their access to native speakers in the classroom, but will also force some teachers to teach illegally which will then deprive the government of the IMTA for each of those teachers.

                  As for the language test, I think that is also misguided. I agree that foreigners who move into a country should try to learn the local language, but expecting them to be able to speak it before they arrive will deter a lot of prospective workers who could help improve the country. I have spent time working in a few different countries and I learned the local language after I had arrived, I don't see what is wrong with that.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Jaime C View Post

                    Unless it's in oil or mining, you'll probably need some fancy credentials, and most likely work for some big multinational company.

                    .
                    You will need the fancy credentials for that too, and some experience.

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                    • #70
                      If you are working for an oil company, they will probably shell out $ for language lessons - at least they did.


                      I only read the last couple pages, does that mean they prefer their professionals to come from Thailand or other Asian countries instead of Western countries? Is there a specific reason for that (perhaps they are more culturally alike) or is that anti-Western sentiment....which was widespread the last time I was there? After rereading that ASEAN thing, it looks like Thailand has a leg up, the tests are only given in Thai?! I also take it that pharmacy is still not a recognized health profession over there?
                      Last edited by Hummingbird.1968; 28-01-15, 08:37.

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                      • #71
                        I really don't find any resentment of Westerners in my time in Indonesia. Sure, some may try to charge you higher prices, but that happens to me all around the world. I don't work in Indonesia, though.
                        Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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                        • #72
                          Moderator note:
                          A few posts that were off topic and mainly dealing with illegal immigration in the US have been moved to a different thread in order to keep this thread on topic.


                          If you wish to continue that discussion, the new thread is here: http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...(moved-thread)

                          Please keep the discussion in this thread related to New Manpower Law Requiring Indonesian Language Proficiency Test of Foreign Workers (as in the title), particularly since it is in the Laws, Visas, Money Matters and Documents forum.
                          Last edited by dafluff; 28-01-15, 16:41.

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                          • #73
                            could seem like they have changed their minds...

                            http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.co...rkers-sources/

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Kroshka2007 View Post
                              could seem like they have changed their minds...

                              http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.co...rkers-sources/
                              Off course! The regulation is silly. If I were a Chinese investor and want to put my money here, absolutely I want my trusted person to watch my investment. If I can't put my people here, then I moved my money somewhere else. If bahasa Indonesia is really necessary I hire Indonesians instead...

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                              • #75
                                ... yes I agree, but would think that those kind of thoughts should have gone through their minds before they launch such an initiative

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