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New Manpower Law Requiring Indonesian Language Proficiency Test of Foreign Workers

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  • ScooterIndo
    replied
    Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
    But you have to admit you have access to a resource that those of us in monolingual relationships don't have. You can't tell me you never asked your wife for help understanding Indonesian. And if you haven't, you are wasting her knowledge!
    Absolutely I do as she still does to me. However that said, when we do this "what's the word for..." exchanges its pretty obvious her English will eat my Bahasa for breakfast.

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  • akubrahat
    replied
    it would be pretty hard for an international school teacher to learn the language effectively. Working all day in English, coming home to an English speaking family, makes it hard to get the practice. The level of proficiency required is uncertain but to get past more than the basics of a language requires some immersion.

    Does anyone have an idea of what the test has in it? Do we have to learn occupational specific things or is it a general test..... is it written or spoken....rumor is that inspectors are coming to workplaces to test expats. Anyone else heard this one?

    Edit: I see this is answered in the JP article, the test is being developed and supposedly delivered online?
    Last edited by akubrahat; 14-01-15, 14:26.

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  • Puspawarna
    replied
    Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
    I am so shocked and offended by that last comment

    Seriously I am more offended when people assume that because my wife is Indonesian she taught me bahasa, as does she when they draw the same conclusion about her fluent English. After all we couldn't possibly have learnt independently could we ??
    Point taken! In fact, I generally assume that the Indonesian spouse knew English before meeting his/her foreign spouse, because they have to have had a "starter language" in common and English is more likely, since plenty of Indonesians speak English well and not so many foreigners speak Indonesian well. Yet, I personally know of situations where my assumption is flat-out incorrect; I have mixed couple friends that only communicate in Indonesian, where the Indonesian spouse speaks little to no English.

    But you have to admit you have access to a resource that those of us in monolingual relationships don't have. You can't tell me you never asked your wife for help understanding Indonesian. And if you haven't, you are wasting her knowledge!

    Leave a comment:


  • Lauretta84
    replied
    New immigration policy from March2015

    Hi all!
    This is my first post on this forum. Currently I'm working as teacher in Jogjakarta with regular KITAS and the time for extension is getting closer (the expiry date is on March 31st).
    Lately I've crashed on this page and I got worried
    http://www.withoutalemon.com/2015/01...es-2015-brace/
    It talks about a new policy for kitas/kitas extension concerning a:
    - certification of fluency in bahasa indonesia
    - a competence certificate for the applied position
    Do you have more precise information about it? Does anyone know if this new regulation has been already applied or it's still a rumor?
    Thank you for any info
    Lauretta

    Leave a comment:


  • ScooterIndo
    replied
    Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
    It does seem especially bizarre to require "mastery" (or passing of a test) BEFORE acquisition of a work permit. Surely even those who view the law favorably (Scooter and travelingchez perhaps?) realize that you probably can't become competent until you've been living here a while. The law would make more sense if people had to pass a test after, for example, a year living in the country. I'm willing to bet that neither Scooter or travelingchez were competent speakers when they first set foot on Indonesian soil, is that correct? (And I believe you both have what is sometimes referred to as a "sleeping dictionary"* so you all have an unfair advantage )

    * That term is not offensive, I hope! It's not meant to be.
    I am so shocked and offended by that last comment

    Seriously I am more offended when people assume that because my wife is Indonesian she taught me bahasa, as does she when they draw the same conclusion about her fluent English. After all we couldn't possibly have learnt independently could we ??

    Leave a comment:


  • Happyman
    replied
    Originally posted by akubrahat View Post
    By number most expats are chinese. It could be targeted at them and the expected numbers from Asean open market.

    Of course westerners have more money so they will get targeted more frequently on a per capita basis.
    It will be a more effective deterrent for Chinese, as they will have greater difficulty learning the language than will those who use an alphabet. But when you consider the numbers side... The amount of Chinese who will see Indonesia as a good place to work, compared to westerners... I think the net effect will be a greater reduction of western foreigners, as compared to Chinese, if the policy is implemented in a consistent and genuine fashion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puspawarna
    replied
    It does seem especially bizarre to require "mastery" (or passing of a test) BEFORE acquisition of a work permit. Surely even those who view the law favorably (Scooter and travelingchez perhaps?) realize that you probably can't become competent until you've been living here a while. The law would make more sense if people had to pass a test after, for example, a year living in the country. I'm willing to bet that neither Scooter or travelingchez were competent speakers when they first set foot on Indonesian soil, is that correct? (And I believe you both have what is sometimes referred to as a "sleeping dictionary"* so you all have an unfair advantage )

    * That term is not offensive, I hope! It's not meant to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • akubrahat
    replied
    By number most expats are chinese. It could be targeted at them and the expected numbers from Asean open market.

    Of course westerners have more money so they will get targeted more frequently on a per capita basis.

    Leave a comment:


  • Happyman
    replied
    "Jakarta. A draft government regulation that will require foreigners to master the Indonesian language before they are able to obtain a work permit here has elicited incredulity and skepticism from members of the local expatriate community, who responded to the announcement with criticism"

    I hope to god this "master the Indonesian language" part is either an exaggeration or a misquote. (from Jakarta Globe, link in post #38)

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilippeD
    replied
    Originally posted by lantern View Post
    Mr Whitchurch(from the article) would seem to have similar concerns:

    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]How the language test is implemented will seriously affect the already tight competition among businesses that employ a large number of foreign workers, Whitchurch added.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“We’re a foreign investment company operating in Indonesia. We’ve obtained our operating permit, we’re registered at the tax office, we have a mining service license, and everyone working here has work permits,” he said.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“If the language regulation will be applied, [SMG Consultants] will comply as well,” Whitchurch assured.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“But I can name you many companies — foreign and local — who break the laws every day. They break immigration laws, mining laws, business laws — but no one is prosecuted.”[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]Thus to ensure a level-playing field, the government must treat all those companies equally and make no exemptions, Whitchurch said.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“The thing is, the less compliant you are with the law, the more money you make. Companies that don’t comply with regulations will win, and those who are compliant are losers,” he said"[/FONT][/COLOR]
    and also from the same article

    "For that they must first obtain a socio-cultural visa and, if their real intention is to work here, then they will potentially break the laws, Peter pointed out. “And that means you would have to be very interested in working here. I support that foreigners must learn Indonesian, but this regulation will create a lot of complexities for both the expats and the companies that hire them,” Peter said.


    “[The regulation] is going to be very difficult to implement. If it will really be implemented, there will be an exodus of expats; probably 80 percent of them will have to leave the country — unless they just pay their way to get the work permits or find a loophole somewhere in the regulation.”


    This bring me back to my previous comment...

    Leave a comment:


  • lantern
    replied
    Originally posted by waarmstrong View Post
    Do think the test might be similar to the one required to get a driver's license?
    Mr Whitchurch(from the article) would seem to have similar concerns:

    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]How the language test is implemented will seriously affect the already tight competition among businesses that employ a large number of foreign workers, Whitchurch added.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“We’re a foreign investment company operating in Indonesia. We’ve obtained our operating permit, we’re registered at the tax office, we have a mining service license, and everyone working here has work permits,” he said.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“If the language regulation will be applied, [SMG Consultants] will comply as well,” Whitchurch assured.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“But I can name you many companies — foreign and local — who break the laws every day. They break immigration laws, mining laws, business laws — but no one is prosecuted.”[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]Thus to ensure a level-playing field, the government must treat all those companies equally and make no exemptions, Whitchurch said.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Helvetica]“The thing is, the less compliant you are with the law, the more money you make. Companies that don’t comply with regulations will win, and those who are compliant are losers,” he said"[/FONT][/COLOR]

    Leave a comment:


  • waarmstrong
    replied
    Do think the test might be similar to the one required to get a driver's license?

    Leave a comment:


  • lantern
    replied
    JG article today (it's still the 13th in my neck of the woods)

    http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.co...language-test/
    Last edited by lantern; 14-01-15, 02:41.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puspawarna
    replied
    Originally posted by burungkecil View Post

    Expecting a newcomer to Indonesia to speak the language on arrival or within a short space of time is not rational when they are busy trying to settle into a new post in a new country but it's perfectly fair to demand that somebody has a good grasp of the lingo before they can get a KITAP.
    That seems more defensible as a matter of policy. Certainly, requiring knowledge of the language in order to gain citizenship is completely reasonable.

    Leave a comment:


  • lantern
    replied
    Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
    Maybe you would if that someone had been poncing off of your countries social security for decades. Or maybe that's just me
    In that case I would be asking questions? There are quite a few cases in the UK/Ireland. I love it when those up in court on welfare fraud need an interpreter. They had enough English to con the system.

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