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  • Dual Citizenship?

    I was an Indonesian citizen but now I am a US citizen. I still have my old Indonesian passport that is still not expired yet. Does Indonesia recognize dual citizenship?

    I have a property on my name in Indonesia (a house). Since I am now a USC, do I lose my rights to own that property?

  • #2
    Originally posted by indousa View Post
    I was an Indonesian citizen but now I am a US citizen. I still have my old Indonesian passport that is still not expired yet. Does Indonesia recognize dual citizenship?

    I have a property on my name in Indonesia (a house). Since I am now a USC, do I lose my rights to own that property?

    If you were to keep your mouh shut about it you maybe able to keep your Indonesian citizenship. I do know several Indonesians who have both citizenship's (American and Indonesian) but legally no the Indonesian govt. does not recognize dual citiznship for anyone above 18.

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    • #3
      You mean that they just keep renewing their Indonesian/American passport?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Black Adder View Post
        If you were to keep your mouh shut about it you maybe able to keep your Indonesian citizenship. I do know several Indonesians who have both citizenship's (American and Indonesian) but legally no the Indonesian govt. does not recognize dual citiznship for anyone above 18.
        BA is absolutely correct and wise....I wish this forum and counsel was available years ago when my Indonesian wife took Canadian Citizenship.

        When your RI passport is due for renewal your options are:

        1. Plan a trip to Indonesia and arrive on a US passport. Get a new Indonesian passport and family ID card. If they ask if you are a citizen of another country,....LIE. Leave Indonesia and enter USA on your US passport. Hide the Indonesian documents.

        2. Apply for a new passport at the Indonesian Consul in you area in the US. They will definitely ask if you have another citizenship...again LIE. But make sure there is no way they can verify...maybe more difficult.

        With regard to your property rights I suggest you talk to a lawyer in RI. I believe it will depend on your success in maintaining you Indonesian citizenship.

        Wannabe Indo David


        Edit:
        After further investigation I may need to contradict my above advice.

        1. I just confirmed that even Indonesians re-entering Indonesia get their passport chopped on entry. My previous advice is therefore incorrect because the RI Immigrasi may question how that recent entry was not chopped in the old passport, which is being renewed.
        IOW... How could you have entered Indonesia?

        However, if visiting Indonesia, it still may be possible to leave the US on a US passport but arrive in Indonesia on the unexpired RI passport. Then, get a new passport in Indonesia and leave on that passport, but arrive in the US on a US passport.
        This will mean that the Fiskal of about US$250 will be required on departing Indonesia.......but......
        You will have now a legitimate passport entitling you to return to Indonesia and stay.....at least until the new law that Atlantis alludes in post #5 is implemented.

        2. In Canada, all Landed Immigrants (LI) are given an LI card. On obtaining Citizenship, this card is replaced by a Citizenship card. When my wife attempted to apply for a new RI passport, at the Vancouver RI Consulate, it was refused due to her being unable to produce an LI card. Her old RI passport reflected that she had become a Canadian Landed Immigrant when she entered Canada, and they correctly surmised that her status had changed.
        I believe the same would apply to a US Green Card holder. Once becoming a US Citizen it is likely that the Green Card will need to be returned, and maybe the US based RI consul are as smart like their Canadian counterparts.

        Corrected and embarrassed David
        Last edited by Davita; 17-02-09, 18:44. Reason: New Information

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        • #5
          Just be aware that Indonesia is the process to be able to control much better what is going on inside indonesia, with its population. A full set of new laws concerning fiscality and population administration (just to give two examples, but there is much more) have been voted or are the process to be passed and will little by little make it much harder to bypass the law.
          I am afraid that you won't be able to retain two passports in a few years from now.

          Comment


          • #6
            On a related note, i'm marrying an indonesian citizen in the US and she is very concerned about giving up her Indonesian Citizenship as she doesnt know a single person in the US (besides me) so if anything ever happened to me there might be no way for her to move back.

            Is it easier for an ex-citizen to regain citizenship if they became a US citizen and something happened to their spouse in the foreign country? (When there entire family lives in Indonesia).

            I'm not sure the laws in the US about her remaining an Indonesian Citizen while living in the US either, but i imagine we couldn't be very free to travel to many places with her on an Indonesian Passport (outside of SE Asia that is).

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            • #7
              chrislyse this is something i can help you with as it is something i have looked in to (alot more than i want to admite) if she inters the us as an indo citizen keeps her indo citizenship but is a perment resadent all she will need to do is keep up on her passport taxes and everything that she would need as a indo citizen or at lest thats what i have been told be everyone i have talked to in the goverment here hope this helps

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              • #8
                Originally posted by chrislyse View Post
                On a related note, i'm marrying an indonesian citizen in the US and she is very concerned about giving up her Indonesian Citizenship as she doesnt know a single person in the US (besides me) so if anything ever happened to me there might be no way for her to move back.

                Is it easier for an ex-citizen to regain citizenship if they became a US citizen and something happened to their spouse in the foreign country? (When there entire family lives in Indonesia).

                I'm not sure the laws in the US about her remaining an Indonesian Citizen while living in the US either, but i imagine we couldn't be very free to travel to many places with her on an Indonesian Passport (outside of SE Asia that is).
                There is no problem living in the US as a permanent resident on an Indonesian passport. The problem starts when you want to travel as a couple. Many countries, outside of Asean, need visas for RI passport holders whereas the US passport holder may not need a visa.

                If citizenship is contemplated I would suggest that, just prior to swearing-in as a US citizen, it would be smart to get a new RI passport and do not advise the Indonesian authorities of your intention. It is not impossible but very difficult to recover the RI citizenship. The trick is to keep the family card current as if nothing had changed.

                David

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                • #9
                  My wife retained her Indonesian citizenship while getting her residence card for Colombia, after we moved here; Colombia is one - and surely not the only one - of the countries that does not require a visa to Indonesian nationals. Yesterday she got her Schengen States visa for an upcoming trip to Jakarta via Germany. She was issued the visa on her Indonesian passport without any trouble whatsoever.
                  She also has received 3 times a visa for Brazil, every time for the maximum stay time allowed. Try that (getting a Brazil visa) with a US passport.
                  IMO, the advantages of retaining the Indonesian citizenship, ie. land ownership, outweighs any other consideration regarding travel.
                  "Science is the philosophy of discovery. Intelligent design is a philosophy of ignorance"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by redsnapr View Post
                    She also has received 3 times a visa for Brazil, every time for the maximum stay time allowed. [COLOR="Red"]Try that (getting a Brazil visa) with a US passport.[/COLOR].
                    I'd be interested to hear why the above red lined quote requirement is necessary...why would Brazil require a visa from a US passport holder and is it the same for Canadian/EU?


                    [Quote]: IMO, the advantages of retaining the Indonesian citizenship, ie. land ownership, outweighs any other consideration regarding travel. [Quote]

                    Agreed; and many other family considerations as indicated by the original poster. Please see my own previous post here on this subject. It is essential to weigh all those factors before changing one's citizenship.

                    David

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Davita View Post
                      If citizenship is contemplated I would suggest that, just prior to swearing-in as a US citizen, it would be smart to get a new RI passport and do not advise the Indonesian authorities of your intention. It is not impossible but very difficult to recover the RI citizenship. The trick is to keep the family card current as if nothing had changed.

                      David
                      The problem with this is the Indonesian Embassy in USA will need to see her original Green Card to be issue a new passport, in the mean time at the US citizen swearing ceremony she needs to surrender her Green Card to get her citizen certificates and her alien #'s will terminate at the same time (this is the number that will be registered in Indonesian Embassy) and she will also has to sign the declaration paper as promised to keep her Indonesian citizenship status and will have to update her intent every two years.

                      It's not the US but rather the Indonesian side that do not recognize the dual citizenships for it's people.
                      Last edited by IndoMom; 19-08-09, 13:07.
                      [FONT=Book Antiqua]If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague..[/FONT]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by IndoMom View Post
                        The problem with this is the Indonesian Embassy in USA will need to see her original Green Card to be issue a new passport, in the mean time at the US citizen swearing ceremony she needs to surrender her Green Card to get her citizen certificates and her alien #'s will terminate at the same time (this is the number that will be registered in Indonesian Embassy) and she will also has to sign the declaration paper as promised to keep her Indonesian citizenship status and will have to update her intent every two years.

                        It's not the US but rather the Indonesian side that do not recognize the dual citizenships for it's people.
                        Thanks IndoMom...I'm in complete agreement.

                        But please read my edited post #4 above re>
                        "However, if visiting Indonesia, it still may be possible to leave the US on a US passport but arrive in Indonesia on the unexpired RI passport. Then, get a new passport in Indonesia and leave on that passport, but arrive in the US on a US passport.

                        I agree that the RI Consul in the U.S. will check if an application is made there. That is why I'm advising to have a new passport, issued in RI, prior to accepting any other citizenship. Once a new citizenship is acquired the goose is cooked!

                        My advise is an attempt to obviate the bureaucracy and achieve the OP's objective.

                        Otherwise, we just give in to bureaucratic protocol; which, imo, is NOT objective.

                        David

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Davita View Post
                          I'd be interested to hear why the above red lined quote requirement is necessary...why would Brazil require a visa from a US passport holder and is it the same for Canadian/EU?
                          I do not know about Canada or EU passport holders, but I have heard horror stories from US colleagues getting their visas from the Brazilian consulates in the US. Supposedly, Brazil is applying in this way a "bilateral" (similar) treatment to US visa applicants, as the US applies to Brazilian applicants of US visas.
                          "Science is the philosophy of discovery. Intelligent design is a philosophy of ignorance"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by atlantis View Post
                            Just be aware that Indonesia is the process to be able to control much better what is going on inside indonesia, with its population. A full set of new laws concerning fiscality and population administration (just to give two examples, but there is much more) have been voted or are the process to be passed and will little by little make it much harder to bypass the law.
                            I am afraid that you won't be able to retain two passports in a few years from now.
                            Hi Atlantis,

                            Can I have your email add?
                            Last edited by ozgrad; 15-01-10, 05:17.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I stumbled upon this forum, very interesting! I have a US passport and still have my Greencard! Got lucky, they didn't ask me to surrender it at swearing in ceremony. I also still have my valid Indo passport. I'm curious to know if I can leave US with my US passport, enter Indo with my Indonesian passport, leave indo with my indonesian passport and enters US with my US passport!
                              The last time I travelled (5 years ago), I was not a US citizen yet, so I left and entered both countries with my Indo passport.

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