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  • Medical Treatment in Indonesia

    For those who may think the Medical facilities here and the abilities and ethics of some of the Doctors and Hospitals at least, are excellent, this link quoting the sometimes tragic experiences of individuals may enlighen you.
    The article on Diagnostic fraud and Surgery for profit is particularly disturbing...

    http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...r-patient.html
    IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

  • #2
    I normally don't rely on doctors . What I see in my country is that so many of the students at the age to enter an university prefer to study medicine , because doctors are the ones who earn more money than any other , in average . So a big percentage of the doctors there are primarily interested in becoming rich . I don't know about Indonesia , but I think surgery here is relatively expensive and I am very cautious with the doctors prescriptions .
    Last edited by marcus; 22-03-10, 18:39.

    Comment


    • #3
      After reading the link from Om..the husband was bit stupid too..if his wife keep complaining about back pain, why didn't he act and requested for CT scan ( post operation) himself rather than waiting to be told by doctor!!!
      I always curious and asking as much as I can and become Yapper IF I am not satisfied and the doctors explanation does not match with the Scan result...
      Regards STT.
      PS: If typo, blame it on Apple and Samsung!

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't in the main either Marcus tho' I do have regular contact with my Australian Doctors for reviews of a current Medical condition.
        I did consult with a local Specialist in the Executive part of a Specialist Hospital with a supposedly good reputation here recently and her ignorance in some Medical matters astounded me!
        I ended up having to educate her on the dangers of one particular Medicine which she prescribed for me, and her examination was totally inadequate, I could have done a better job myself. Tho' I must say my bule status gave me the Royal carpet treatment including a personally guided tour of the facility whilst her other patients had to sit and wait longer I might add...
        Note; It seems you and I are the only two who are reasonably concious of our health and take an interest in what is going on within Indonesia, interesting, perhaps having Insurance gives a false sense of security to those with it. I wonder if they really know about what actually happens with a stroke or Cardiac arrest here, I would be dead before the ambulance, if it arrived at all, ever got to me, hence istriku's education of CPR... thump on the chest like this so many times then, and then blow into the mouth twice! What, tidak apa2 berapa kali ini if you forget, just bloody do it any way you can... and if it's a major stroke, just put a pillow over my face and hold it there for 5 mins ...
        IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by stt_cibubur View Post
          After reading the link from Om..the husband was bit stupid too..if his wife keep complaining about back pain, why didn't he act and requested for CT scan ( post operation) himself rather than waiting to be told by doctor!!!
          I always curious and asking as much as I can and become Yapper IF I am not satisfied and the doctors explanation does not match with the Scan result...
          Even in the West many people will not question their Doctors, a phenomena that I'm glad to say is being slowly overcome and actually encouraged by a younger generation of Medicos.
          Here on the other hand, the old cliche of Doctors are Gods don't question them is still mainstream.
          Do you really think they would have orderred another scan and taken the risk of proving themselves wrong, it's quite probable they knew the woman was paralysed before they stitched her back up again, In fact I'm sure of it!
          IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by omdafyd View Post
            Even in the West many people will not question their Doctors, a phenomena that I'm glad to say is being slowly overcome and actually encouraged by a younger generation of Medicos.
            Here on the other hand, the old cliche of Doctors are Gods don't question them is still mainstream.
            Do you really think they would have orderred another scan and taken the risk of proving themselves wrong, it's quite probable they knew the woman was paralysed before they stitched her back up again, In fact I'm sure of it!
            Well...in that case I am the rebel..LOL...I will question every single word come out from the doctors/nurses...If I am paying lots of money I want to know everything....The procedures, the medicines, the treatments, the side effect, etc.
            Regards STT.
            PS: If typo, blame it on Apple and Samsung!

            Comment


            • #7
              For a real experience, just recently (two weeks ago ) I deliver my baby and had C section cut. After the one hour operation, I was so relieved and very thankful to my doctor who studied and practiced medicine in Australia. Then came a nurse to check my blood pressure, she said my blood pressure is 200 over 100 and its too high but I was a bit hesitant since I didnt really felt the symptoms for having high BP. After she is gone my mum- who is a doctor from back home, took out her own BP apparatus and checked my BP, it was normal but few mins later, the nurse came back with the medicine,and mum seeing the medicine told me don't take that, that's for lowering your BP. I asked for the head nurse to recheck my BP and it was after all, just normal.. A silly mistake that can be fatal. What if I took it?! My BP will collapse. What if my mum
              was not there?
              Scary thought...

              And another bad experience, my aunt was in the most expensive hospital in Semarang for weeks and they said she only had gastritis. I flew ASAP from the Philippines to see her and I cant believe what I saw- She is already in edematous state- retaining water in her body. I checked her chemistry result ( I can read since Im a med tech by education) and saw that her liver profile and kidney profile is 4 times the normal value. I asked the doctor and they said she needs operation because she have stones in her bladder. I know for sure that if she will be cut, she wont survive. I immediately flew her back to the Philippines the next day and was diagnose of having Multiple Myeloma- a very rare blood disease. In fact, the hospital in semarang had the machine and the result for the test specific for Multiple Myeoloma but her doctor was not able to read it or maybe they cant...
              Last edited by kverz; 22-03-10, 21:00.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by omdafyd View Post
                ... and if it's a major stroke, just put a pillow over my face and hold it there for 5 mins ...
                OK Om....Please tell the missus...'I will be there' to the tune of.......

                Dr. Jack Kevorkian.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

                If we can we have an Expat in Indo discount..... count me in !

                David

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Davita View Post
                  OK Om....Please tell the missus...'I will be there' to the tune of.......

                  Dr. Jack Kevorkian.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

                  If we can we have an Expat in Indo discount..... count me in !

                  David
                  Here is our Australian counterpart in the link below ... Actually for me, this is a very serious topic having worked with the aged and observed first hand many uneccesarily slow and lingerring deaths, I can remember one in particular to this day.
                  I know what Mx to organise, it's mainly a question of assistance as that's often needed when the time comes to make the decision for those whose awareness and beliefs allow them the freedom of making it.
                  But I digress as usual ...

                  http://www.exitinternational.net/
                  IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    saving lives

                    I saw a program recently that claimed many more lives are being saved by compressing down one after another and so on onto the chest not using artificial respiration. It is apparently more effective to keep on pumping as opposed to pausing and blowing into the patients mouth. Here is what I found through Wikipedia:

                    Compression only resuscitation / Cardiocerebral resuscitation (CCR)
                    The traditional [COLOR=#002bb8]International Liaison Committee on Resuscitation[/COLOR] approach described above has been challenged in recent years by advocates for compression-only CPR, also known as cardiocerebral resuscitation (CCR). This technique is simply chest compressions without [COLOR=#002bb8]artificial respiration[/COLOR]. The respiration component of CPR has been a topic of major controversy over the past decade. The CCR method has been championed by the [COLOR=#002bb8]University of Arizona[/COLOR]'s [COLOR=#ba0000]Sarver Heart Center[/COLOR]. A study by the university[COLOR=#002bb8][21][/COLOR] claimed a 300% greater success rate over standard CPR.[COLOR=#002bb8][22][/COLOR] The exceptions were in the case of [COLOR=#002bb8]drowning[/COLOR] or [COLOR=#002bb8]drug overdose[/COLOR].
                    In March 2007, a Japanese study in the medical journal [COLOR=#002bb8]The Lancet[/COLOR] presented strong evidence that compressing the chest, not mouth-to-mouth (MTM) ventilation, is the key to helping someone recover from cardiac arrest.[COLOR=#002bb8][23][/COLOR] An editorial by Gordon Ewy MD (a proponent of CCR) in the same issue of The Lancet called for an interim revision of the ILCOR Guidelines based on the results of the Japanese study, but the next scheduled revision of the Guidelines was not until 2010. However, on March 30, 2008, the American Heart Association broke away from the ILCOR position and stated that compression-only CPR works as well as, and sometimes better than, traditional CPR.[COLOR=#002bb8][24][/COLOR]
                    The method of delivering chest compressions remains the same, as does the rate (100 per minute), but the rescuer delivers only the compression element which, the University of Arizona claims, keeps the bloodflow moving without the interruption caused by MTM respiration. It has also been claimed that the use of compression only delivery increases the chances of lay person delivering CPR.[COLOR=#002bb8][25][/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      While I understand your concerns, you state that you did not feel any symptoms for high blood pressure. That's because there are none! That is also why hypertension is known as the "Silent Killer." Furthermore, blood pressure can vary very quickly, especially if you are nervous so you cannot blame the nurse. I have had this problem for many years. Here are my typical readings taken every hour
                      5am 182 106 47

                      Medication

                      6am 157 88 49
                      7am 161 89 44

                      8am 132 81 47
                      9am 155 80 48
                      10am 126 70 56
                      11am 114 69 55

                      12pm 154 84 55

                      1pm 130 80 54

                      2pm 117 72 56

                      3pm 146 81 55
                      4pm 116 71 58

                      5pm 116 66 59

                      6pm 140 78 56

                      7pm 133 65 60

                      8pm 128 67 60

                      9pm 150 86 56
                      10pm 149 85 55
                      [FONT=&quot]11pm 149 63 56[/FONT]

                      Originally posted by kverz View Post
                      For a real experience, just recently (two weeks ago ) I deliver my baby and had C section cut. After the one hour operation, I was so relieved and very thankful to my doctor who studied and practiced medicine in Australia. Then came a nurse to check my blood pressure, she said my blood pressure is 200 over 100 and its too high but I was a bit hesitant since I didnt really felt the symptoms for having high BP. After she is gone my mum- who is a doctor from back home, took out her own BP apparatus and checked my BP, it was normal but few mins later, the nurse came back with the medicine,and mum seeing the medicine told me don't take that, that's for lowering your BP. I asked for the head nurse to recheck my BP and it was after all, just normal.. A silly mistake that can be fatal. What if I took it?! My BP will collapse. What if my mum
                      was not there?
                      Scary thought...

                      And another bad experience, my aunt was in the most expensive hospital in Semarang for weeks and they said she only had gastritis. I flew ASAP from the Philippines to see her and I cant believe what I saw- She is already in edematous state- retaining water in her body. I checked her chemistry result ( I can read since Im a med tech by education) and saw that her liver profile and kidney profile is 4 times the normal value. I asked the doctor and they said she needs operation because she have stones in her bladder. I know for sure that if she will be cut, she wont survive. I immediately flew her back to the Philippines the next day and was diagnose of having Multiple Myeloma- a very rare blood disease. In fact, the hospital in semarang had the machine and the result for the test specific for Multiple Myeoloma but her doctor was not able to read it or maybe they cant...
                      Anyone who says that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...has never been in the bush

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It depends upon how long one just pumps the chest for, more than aprox 3 mins and the process of Brain death begins because of anoxia. I personally would prefer to be rescucitated with most if not all of my neurons alive and working and not be a complete vegetable...
                        It was suggested during my training that according to tests {I don't know how they managed to do the tests but anyway} that a plumbers instrument, the one for unblocking kitchen sinks, is more effective for pumping the chest than using one's hands, but I don't carry one around with me, it's too big for my pocket or the glove box ...
                        IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=exbrit;66479]While I understand your concerns, you state that you did not feel any symptoms for high blood pressure. That's because there are none! That is also why hypertension is known as the "Silent Killer." Furthermore, blood pressure can vary very quickly, especially if you are nervous so you cannot blame the nurse. I have had this problem for many years.



                          Sorry but this is wrong.
                          There definately are symptoms of high blood pressure, usually they include blurred or double vision, nausea, headache, labored breathing, and dizziness, but you are correct in saying that it is called the Silent Killer however it would be more accurate to describe the reason behind this is because these symptoms are mild, and most people do not pay attention and recognise them for what they are.
                          Blood pressure typically can vary minute by minute depending upon what one is actually doing, at rest, smokin a fag, having sex, we all know of that one eh, any activity at all.
                          To gain a more accurate reading for the Doctors, it is far better to do a lying and standing BP one followed by the other.
                          As one who has taken many BP reading using a stethoscope I can assure you that in some patients it is not to difficult to make a mistake, far too many Doctors and Nurses rely upon a quick count then record the subjective reading, I'm not taking about the modern digital equipment which personally I do not have 100% trust in.
                          IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I find that my Indonesian friends and colleagues, most of whom are educated and sensible people, simply never question the advice of a doctor or healthcare professional.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gffgold View Post
                              I find that my Indonesian friends and colleagues, most of whom are educated and sensible people, simply never question the advice of a doctor or healthcare professional.
                              Plus I can count on it like I count on the sun to rise in the morning that if I or another doesn't feel that great one day, the question asked is "Have you been to a doctor yet"? When the reply is no, "Why not"? follows. After that is answered of course "You should go" finishes the sequence. Most of the time people are sick here it is some kind of flu or they have the runs and an upset stomach. For the flu the best thing to do is drink plenty of liquids and as you don't normally want to be too active in that state, don't be. People still take "medicine" to "cure" themself. What they don't know is it doesn't get rid of the flu it just masks it by relieving the symptoms. That of course is common in the west too. At the drop of a hat people go to a doctor. I haven't even taken drugs for the runs except for in an extreme case where it was just taking too long to clear. Usually it seems to run its course in a few days without anything. Of course blood in it is the red flag one must seek proper medicine and anything that is persistant or seems out of the ordinary should send one to a physician.

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