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  • Religion a question

    In Islam were and how one earns his / her money is is important, meaning good and bad ( halal , haram)

    my question

    I own a shop I sell say cloths if I make 100% profit on an iteam it would be considered haram yes ?
    the contract between to people one selling and one buying should be two parties being happy yes ?

    at what profit 10% 20% 30% is it stated, if any that a religious person be considered halal


    thanks
    “Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, ‘What! You too? I thought I was the only one.”

  • #2
    Actually quite an interesting question, which I'm sure Dan has a good answer, but from my experience in Saudi, during Ramadan prices actually came down as it was consider wrong to cheat people, but here prices go up and never seem to come down, but through out the Middle East and Asia you are expected to haggle, in Egypt once a price is agreed, they ask if you are happy with it, so I suppose you could continually haggle until exhausted if not, but once you say you are happy with the price, deal done as here
    Last edited by Anglian; 29-05-16, 17:16.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Anglian View Post
      Actually quite an interesting question, which I'm sure Dan has a good answer, but from my experience in Saudi, during Ramadan prices actually came down as it was consider wrong to cheat people, but here prices go up and never seem to come down, but through out the Middle East and Asia you are expected to haggle, in Egypt once a price is agreed, they ask if you are happy with it, so I suppose you could continually haggle until exhausted if not, but once you say you are happy with the price, deal done as here
      so at what level or percent age of profit(mark up) in your view would it be considered haram ?
      “Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, ‘What! You too? I thought I was the only one.”

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh no I didn't say that, I'm just quoting from experience in shopping or buying things, their never appeared to be any restrictions on price and it is up to you to Haggle, but just to say in Saudi, prices of many goods was much less and no real haggling during Ramadan. There is Islamic banking which is totally different to western banking, but I know nothing about that at all, something my wife and experienced here may be typical in Indonesia, when we were first married we require a wardrobe, my wife went hunting in blockA, found a nice well made wardrobe 6 million, it had nice carving and inlays, she wanted me to have a look, so off we went, but as soon as he saw me the price went up to 7 million rp, so we went away to chat about it, decide that 7 mil would be ok as it was quite nice, on our return to are horror the prat was now asking 9 million rp, with that we walked away, this you will find happens quite often here, they would rather lose a sale than lose what they think is face, quite often I keep in the background on quite a few purchases, when they see me after a sale that are a bit narked.
        Last edited by Anglian; 29-05-16, 19:47.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Anglian View Post
          Oh no I didn't say that, I'm just quoting from experience in shopping or buying things, their never appeared to be any restrictions on price and it is up to you to Haggle, but just to say in Saudi, prices of many goods was much less and no real haggling during Ramadan. There is Islamic banking which is totally different to western banking, but I know nothing about that at all, something my wife and experienced here may be typical in Indonesia, when we were first married we require a wardrobe, my wife went hunting in blockA, found a nice well made wardrobe 6 million, it had nice carving and inlays, she wanted me to have a look, so off we went, but as soon as he saw me the price went up to 7 million rp, so we went away to chat about it, decide that 7 mil would be ok as it was quite nice, on our return to are horror the prat was now asking 9 million rp, with that we walked away, this you will find happens quite often here, they would rather lose a sale than lose what they think is face, quite often I keep in the background on quite a few purchases, when they see me after a sale that are a bit narked.
          I'm no expert either, but my understanding is that in Islam paying (and charging?) interest is forbidden, so Islamic banks offer loans without interest. In the US, there was recently a controversy over this issue when some lawmakers wanted to make it mandatory that banks accommodate Muslims in this regard. Many people were really upset, viewing it as a handout and unfair treatment. Others saw it as a necessary step since many Muslim immigrants could never advance very much without loans for a mortgage or to start a business. I'm not sure where I stand on that issue...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Anglian View Post
            Oh no I didn't say that, I'm just quoting from experience in shopping or buying things, their never appeared to be any restrictions on price and it is up to you to Haggle, but just to say in Saudi, prices of many goods was much less and no real haggling during Ramadan. There is Islamic banking which is totally different to western banking, but I know nothing about that at all, something my wife and experienced here may be typical in Indonesia, when we were first married we require a wardrobe, my wife went hunting in blockA, found a nice well made wardrobe 6 million, it had nice carving and inlays, she wanted me to have a look, so off we went, but as soon as he saw me the price went up to 7 million rp, so we went away to chat about it, decide that 7 mil would be ok as it was quite nice, on our return to are horror the prat was now asking 9 million rp, with that we walked away, this you will find happens quite often here, they would rather lose a sale than lose what they think is face, quite often I keep in the background on quite a few purchases, when they see me after a sale that are a bit narked.
            ya I've notice that too
            the minute they see a bule the price goes through the roof
            I hate that
            “Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, ‘What! You too? I thought I was the only one.”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jason206 View Post
              I'm no expert either, but my understanding is that in Islam paying (and charging?) interest is forbidden, so Islamic banks offer loans without interest. In the US, there was recently a controversy over this issue when some lawmakers wanted to make it mandatory that banks accommodate Muslims in this regard. Many people were really upset, viewing it as a handout and unfair treatment. Others saw it as a necessary step since many Muslim immigrants could never advance very much without loans for a mortgage or to start a business. I'm not sure where I stand on that issue...
              I think and I'm out on a limb here
              that a country in which one decides to migrate to, its up to the person migrating to embrace the values and customs of there new host country
              if the law makers are truly for the people then they should in brace the new arrivals, its a give and take situation
              I guess but a very interesting subject
              “Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, ‘What! You too? I thought I was the only one.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Anglian View Post
                Actually quite an interesting question, which I'm sure Dan has a good answer, but from my experience in Saudi, during Ramadan prices actually came down as it was consider wrong to cheat people, but here prices go up and never seem to come down, but through out the Middle East and Asia you are expected to haggle, in Egypt once a price is agreed, they ask if you are happy with it, so I suppose you could continually haggle until exhausted if not, but once you say you are happy with the price, deal done as here
                HAGGLE?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I was under the impression rightly or wrongly, that it was the source of the money more than the mark up so for example if you're a pimp or a prostitute or a drug dealer for example then the money you make from your illicit trade would be considered haram in Islam.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                    I was under the impression rightly or wrongly, that it was the source of the money more than the mark up so for example if you're a pimp or a prostitute or a drug dealer for example then the money you make from your illicit trade would be considered haram in Islam.
                    Gosh Scoot, does that mean corrupt money and they have to pay it back, don't think that will happen

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Anglian View Post
                      Gosh Scoot, does that mean corrupt money and they have to pay it back, don't think that will happen
                      Yeah funny how that one is over looked huh ??

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jason206 View Post
                        I'm no expert either, but my understanding is that in Islam paying (and charging?) interest is forbidden, so Islamic banks offer loans without interest. In the US, there was recently a controversy over this issue when some lawmakers wanted to make it mandatory that banks accommodate Muslims in this regard. Many people were really upset, viewing it as a handout and unfair treatment. Others saw it as a necessary step since many Muslim immigrants could never advance very much without loans for a mortgage or to start a business. I'm not sure where I stand on that issue...
                        That would be crazy. Taking my money and giving me nothing in return amounts to theft. Even if the government were to do it "themselves", the rest of us would be paying for it. What about inflation? If they can find some bloke who wants to do it out of charity, good on 'em, 'cause that's all it is, a request for charity from the rest of us.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe we just go back to haggling with goats and forget this money thing

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Happyman View Post
                            That would be crazy. Taking my money and giving me nothing in return amounts to theft. Even if the government were to do it "themselves", the rest of us would be paying for it. What about inflation? If they can find some bloke who wants to do it out of charity, good on 'em, 'cause that's all it is, a request for charity from the rest of us.
                            Well, I'm not sure I agree. Like I said, I'm no expert on Islamic banking, but it seems to me there could still be penalty fees if one goes past the agreed upon payment schedule. Also, the argument could be made that it would be good for both local and national economies (thus good for everyone) if a large group of people were suddenly able to invest in substantial ways.

                            Let's not forget that these people would also not be able to buy a car or even take out student loans unless they could pay upfront. Then again, maybe that was the whole point of this religious law originally, that large loans in general are to be avoided, and maybe Islamic banks are a weird modern loophole. I don't know, it's just a thought..

                            Personally, I've never taken out a loan from a bank or even had a credit card. Of course this means I also haven't accumulated much. If I want something, I need to save up for it. Crazy concept for most Americans. I just always preferred to not be in debt since I've seen how large debt can affect people, relationships, families, etc. Then again, I don't have the experience of starting a family and raising kids.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jason206 View Post
                              I'm no expert either, but my understanding is that in Islam paying (and charging?) interest is forbidden, so Islamic banks offer loans without interest. In the US, there was recently a controversy over this issue when some lawmakers wanted to make it mandatory that banks accommodate Muslims in this regard. Many people were really upset, viewing it as a handout and unfair treatment. Others saw it as a necessary step since many Muslim immigrants could never advance very much without loans for a mortgage or to start a business. I'm not sure where I stand on that issue...
                              While Islamic Banking does not explicitly call it "interest", they do recognize the time value of money. The most popular way of doing this is a fixed return model called murabaha. So for example, A wants to buy a house at $100,000. Instead of getting a mortgage, the bank "buys" the house, then "sells" it to A for $150,000, and A can pay in installments. Voila...no interest, still tidy profit for the bank.

                              There are other models too, but essentially they are just variations of this.

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