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Why are Indonesians so clueless about the environment... disposing of ones rubbish

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  • Why are Indonesians so clueless about the environment... disposing of ones rubbish

    During my backpacking travels in Indonesia I constantly watched the locals throw rubbish out of the bus window, off the side of the ferry from lombok to bali- just to name a few. On one bus trip in flores, a guy was watching me finish a packet of chips and he suggested I throw it out the window.

    Obviously it is generations of uneducated people who have a different mindset to the nanny state thinking of the country where I come from.

    Indonesia has bigger problems to solve but couldn't they start by educating the kids at school about this issue. If your an English teacher and have held a class discussion on this subject what was the reaction?

    If your an Indonesian or an expat reading this thread what are your thoughts on this issue?

  • #2
    The idiocy with trash leads to more problems than just litter… it's a major cause of blocking up sewers and waterways, which leads to more flooding. It also leads to more vermin, which combined with the nasty flood water, leads to lots of disease… I am convinced that the average person here just doesn't give a shit.
    QUOTE: "Anybody who throws a few pieces of chicken or whatever meat they have onto a gas grill deserves what they get..."

    Comment


    • #3
      OP, have you really ever actually set foot in Indonesia? Not that you are wrong about the existence of large quantities of rubbish here, but I'm just more curious about you, yourself... just trolling by with an axe to grind, are you?
      [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

      The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
        OP, have you really ever actually set foot in Indonesia? Not that you are wrong about the existence of large quantities of rubbish here, but I'm just more curious about you, yourself... just trolling by with an axe to grind, are you?
        Must you start a fight on every thread?
        The OP sounds like he/she's been here, backpackers do exist.
        QUOTE: "Anybody who throws a few pieces of chicken or whatever meat they have onto a gas grill deserves what they get..."

        Comment


        • #5
          To throw some light on this; for the poor rubbish disposal costs money they dont have so it gets dumped anywhere including rivers and drainage ditches (saluran/got/subak) there is an active campaign about caring for the environment in Bali and on saturdays the school kids all go in to school with a sapu lidi (brush made of twigs) and they sweep and clean around the area of the school. Its nice to see an invokes a sense of pride in the neigbourhood. As for rubbish disposal in most indonesian cultures, using rivers to dispose of waste is the way it was always done in the days of old - but in those days most household waste was bio degradable so it was ok. These days trash has changed and the waste now includes lots of plastic based packaging and non bio degradable items -but the "chuck it in the river" mentality continues unfortunately. For the urban dwellers that still throw litter everywhere they are just pigs (happy in shit) and are too ignorant to care for the environment they actually live in, this is made worse but a lack of "keep Indonesia clean" campaigns and also litter bins in public places. The words "buang sampah pada tempatnya" mean as much to the average indonesian as the "dilarang merokok" signs mean to Indonesian smokers. Its just a total lack of disipline and the result of decades of lack of enforcement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MattyRedSox View Post
            Must you start a fight on every thread?
            The OP sounds like he/she's been here, backpackers do exist.
            http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...Indonesian-men

            Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
            "Is it true that [insert objectionable stereotype/inflammatory generalization here]? As for me, I don't really know. I ask the question because I was just wondering" is a classic internet ploy.

            Are people trolls if they ask: Are Indonesians bad parents? Are Indonesians wierdos for not liking dogs? Are relationships between Indonesian males and foreign females usually skanky? I have no idea, and I'd like to keep an open mind on the subject.

            "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

            Oh, sorry, the backpacking troll who likes to bash every facet of Indonesian people, culture and society that comes to his / her mind must have a soft spot in your heart eh? Mea culpa ya...
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

            The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
              Oh, sorry, the backpacking troll who likes to bash every facet of Indonesian people, culture and society that comes to his / her mind must have a soft spot in your heart eh? Mea culpa ya...
              You are around to defend "every facet of Indonesian people, culture and society" so I guess it's even-steven.
              "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
              George Bernard Shaw

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
                http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...Indonesian-men




                "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

                Oh, sorry, the backpacking troll who likes to bash every facet of Indonesian people, culture and society that comes to his / her mind must have a soft spot in your heart eh? Mea culpa ya...
                Yes, asking a question about trash is bashing every facet. Hyperbole much? The soft spot is given because a relatively new poster asked a question and you decided to be rude, so I asked you why you act so on pretty much every thread you touch.
                QUOTE: "Anybody who throws a few pieces of chicken or whatever meat they have onto a gas grill deserves what they get..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                  To throw some light on this; for the poor rubbish disposal costs money they dont have so it gets dumped anywhere including rivers and drainage ditches (saluran/got/subak) there is an active campaign about caring for the environment in Bali and on saturdays the school kids all go in to school with a sapu lidi (brush made of twigs) and they sweep and clean around the area of the school. Its nice to see an invokes a sense of pride in the neigbourhood. As for rubbish disposal in most indonesian cultures, using rivers to dispose of waste is the way it was always done in the days of old - but in those days most household waste was bio degradable so it was ok. These days trash has changed and the waste now includes lots of plastic based packaging and non bio degradable items -but the "chuck it in the river" mentality continues unfortunately. For the urban dwellers that still throw litter everywhere they are just pigs (happy in shit) and are too ignorant to care for the environment they actually live in, this is made worse but a lack of "keep Indonesia clean" campaigns and also litter bins in public places. The words "buang sampah pada tempatnya" mean as much to the average indonesian as the "dilarang merokok" signs mean to Indonesian smokers. Its just a total lack of disipline and the result of decades of lack of enforcement.
                  So true, huge piles of burning crap with rats dancing it, until the rains wash it into the canals or somebody kicks it over….

                  the cart guys who sort through our trash daily are probably, without meaning to be, the most green folks here…
                  QUOTE: "Anybody who throws a few pieces of chicken or whatever meat they have onto a gas grill deserves what they get..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've visited a number of third world countries where people litter with abandon. Mostly, I'd say poverty and not finding any reason not to litter. First, having litter baskets placed regularly, and emptying them every day or two is the first step. A PR campaign and perhaps fines would be the second step.
                    Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      this OP was called as a troll on several previous threads - better not to feed it

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
                        I've visited a number of third world countries where people litter with abandon. Mostly, I'd say poverty and not finding any reason not to litter. First, having litter baskets placed regularly, and emptying them every day or two is the first step. A PR campaign and perhaps fines would be the second step.
                        Even if there are bins, who empties them and where does the garbage end up? Imagine the amount of garbage produced by a city the size of Jakarta and what it would take to deal with it properly.
                        "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                        George Bernard Shaw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MattyRedSox View Post
                          The idiocy with trash leads to more problems than just litterā€¦ it's a major cause of blocking up sewers and waterways, which leads to more flooding. It also leads to more vermin, which combined with the nasty flood water, leads to lots of diseaseā€¦ I am convinced that the average person here just doesn't give a shit.
                          You got me, dude. I am rude, but referring to the "average" Indonesian as an idiot who "just doesn't give a shit" about his or her environmental conditions is really polite and civil. I referred to your probable "soft spot" for this poster (the OP of this thread and the one I referred to in my earlier post) because you too have a history and proclivity for putting Indonesia down, well it seemed to me "in just about every thread you touch", that is up to the point where I started actively avoiding reading pretty much any post you make here, for that and other reasons (and you have my full permission and blessing to do just the same with mine)... This poster has been referred to by *at least one of the moderators of this forum* (as quoted by me above) as being at least a probable, if not a definitive, troll. If you really want to defend this poster and all the "innocent" questions and topics that he / she throws out here, feel free. Now lets go back to me being so "rude" and your own post as I have quoted above... and you think *I* am rude? Frankly my dear, I don't give a shit.

                          I live in a generally filthy city, but every day I see "average" Indonesians doing what they can to keep their little spot clean.
                          [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

                          The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Whether it's a troll thread or not, I think talking about solutions to waste problems won't hurt.

                            I find that Indonesians produce much less trash than Americans. I know that for a family of 5 or so, we put a small size of garbage bag most days. (grocery store plastic bag). I'd put out 3-4 times more in the US. Many people here also recycle, and you get garbage pickers who actively go through stuff for recyclables. In the US, I had a dumb neighbor who routinely throws grass clippings in the recycle bin.
                            Last edited by Jaime C; 10-12-13, 05:28. Reason: Typo
                            Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lantern View Post
                              You are around to defend "every facet of Indonesian people, culture and society" so I guess it's even-steven.
                              My wife and all of her family are Indonesians. I have many outstanding colleagues and decent, hardworking neighbors and friends who are Indonesians. I live as a guest in Indonesia and though I find it far from perfect I try to show some respect, unlike some posters on this forum. There is plenty of hypocrisy, social foible, corrupt or inept government in any "Western" country one can name. When I see someone putting Indonesia or Indonesians in general (the "average person here") down for kicks, I take it a bit personally as I see it somewhat as an attack on my own. If you have a problem with that, too bad.
                              [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

                              The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

                              Comment

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