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  • Daughter just got a foreign passport

    Hello, I would appreciatte some advice..My daughter was born in Indonesia and lived her entire life as an Indonesian citizen and passport holder. He just recently left Indonesia and got her first foreign passport overseas, following her Fathers UK citizenship. She left Indonesia on her Indonesia passport a few mths ago. She is 18. When she returns to Indonesia for extended holidays what passport should she use? The passports are not linked and no affidavit..I asked about getting an affidavit but seems she is too old. Can she just enter Indonesia on her UK passport and they will not know she has an Indonesian passport? It is our intention to do everything legal...so when she is 21 we will give up one of the passports...but until then whats the best way to do it the right way? My thinking was to just stop using the Indonesian passport and let it eventually expire, and from today forward only use the UK. I just wonder what she should be prepared for at immigration.... Many thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by rusty0828 View Post
    (1) ... When she returns to Indonesia ... what passport should she use? ...

    2) ... whats the best way to do it the right way? ...

    (1) Assuming she is now an UK citizen , I think she must use ONLY the UK passport (has to get an Indonesian Visa to come to Indonesia) .

    (2) She has to inform the Indonesian Embassy in UK about that . I suppose the Embassy will ask her to bring the Indonesian passport to be cancelled . Better get back the cancelled passport because it is one of the proof that she was an Indonesian citizen - this can be useful for getting an Indonesian long term Visa (specific for ex-Indonesians) , if she decides to stay a long time in Indonesia .


    -----------------------------------

    CHAPTER IV of UU no.12 , year 2006
    LOSS OF INDONESIAN CITIZENSHIP
    Article 23
    An Indonesian citizen will lose her/his citizenship due to the following:
    a. Acquires another citizenship voluntarily;
    .....

    Comment


    • #3
      Marcus is correct in a normal circumstance but I re-read the OP and he says his daughter is 18 years old. My understanding she is in an interim situation of still being of dual-nationality (UK and WNI) until age 21..... when one or the other will be denied.
      To summarize:
      0 to 18 y.o: Dual citizenship allowed (conditions apply)
      18 to 21 y.o: Dual citizenship tolerated, transition/thinking period
      21+ y.o: Dual citizenship forbidden by Indonesian government, child must choose one nationality

      I'd suggest she enters Indonesia with her RI passport but have her UK passport available and have an explanation...and tell her to not be intimidated.....she is perfectly legal!!!.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Davita View Post
        ... My understanding she is in an interim situation of still being of dual-nationality (UK and WNI) ...

        Davita , from what he wrote : " ... no affidavit..I asked about getting an affidavit but seems she is too old ..." I assumed she was not a dual citizen UK & Indonesian .

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes from the UK we contacted some agents in Indonesia about getting an affidavit....but they said processing an affidavit after she turns 18 is hard...they were also not very confident in their replies of where she stands and what passport and procedures to use going fwd.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by marcus View Post


            Davita , from what he wrote : " ... no affidavit..I asked about getting an affidavit but seems she is too old ..." I assumed she was not a dual citizen UK & Indonesian .
            I also didn't completely understand why she needs an affidavit if (as stated) she already has an Indonesian passport and she's not yet 21. My understanding is the affidavit is for those qualified children who do NOT have an Indonesian passport but travel on a foreign passport.....and wish to enter Indonesia without a requiring a visa.
            This is an Indonesian Immigration requirement....."When a child has an Indonesian passport and a foreign passport, he/she is obliged to use the same passport (either Indonesian or foreign passport) to enter and exit Indonesia."

            In addition I would suggest if she intends to remain a UK citizen at age 21 she should formally renounce her RI citizenship and not just let the passport expire.

            Remember the case of the Minister of Energy who had dual-USA/RI citizenship...he formally renounced his USA, after the fact, but still lost his job and got demoted.
            An Australian politician, who also had New Zealand citizenship because of his father, just lost his job this week. He says he didn't even know he was still qualified as a dual-citizen but the court found otherwise.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Davita View Post
              (a) I also didn't completely understand why she needs an affidavit if (as stated) she already has an Indonesian passport and she's not yet 21. My understanding is the affidavit is for those qualified children who do NOT have an Indonesian passport ...

              (b) This is an Indonesian Immigration requirement....."When a child has an Indonesian passport and a foreign passport, he/she is obliged to use the same passport (either Indonesian or foreign passport) to enter and exit Indonesia." ...

              (a) Davita , I still didn't read enough about this subject , but from what I did read :
              Specifically applicable in this case :
              - The possibility of a dual citizenship was introduced in the 2006's Law (UU no.12 , year 2006) , after she was born . I guess later a Regulation stated that she had until August 2010 to apply for the dual citizenship . Rusty0828 could tell us if she did apply for this dual citizenship , I guess she didn't so the reason why he applied for the Affidavit now .
              - Worse than that , I am not sure but it seems that she was even not eligible for dual citizenship until August 2010 , because curiously it seems that if a child gets first the foreign citizenship then the child apply for the dual citizenship to add the Indonesian one . But the inverse seems not possible (although I may be wrong - need to read more about it) .
              - Anyway , dual citizenship for her (if applicable) was not automatic , she or her parents had to apply for that .

              (b) Could you tell us where did you get this information (I think it is a little harsh) .

              Comment


              • #8
                a. I took what rusty said in his OP and went with that....'My daughter was born in Indonesia and lived her entire life as an Indonesian citizen and passport holder. He? just recently left Indonesia and got her first foreign passport overseas, following her Fathers UK citizenship'. I took from that she was already a dual-citizen.

                b. It's quoted in our Living in Indonesia parent site above (how to obtain Dual-citizen for child/foreign parent). That part is from Wijaya & Co. ....'With dual citizenship your child will hold two passports. One condition of Indonesia's dual citizenship law is that the child must consistently use the same passport leaving and entering Indonesia, choosing either one of them.'

                Comment


                • #9
                  My daughter never applied for dual..she just recently got her UK citizenship and passport and we are now looking at the next steps now that she has two passports and no affidavit. Can you recommend a lawyer in Jakarta who can help us with this? Thank you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rusty0828 View Post
                    My daughter never applied for dual..she just recently got her UK citizenship and passport and we are now looking at the next steps now that she has two passports and no affidavit. Can you recommend a lawyer in Jakarta who can help us with this? Thank you.
                    I understand your daughter was born before 2006 and is an Indonesian as she must have been registered as such when born.... and she left Indonesia on a current RI passport.
                    You didn't apply for her to be dual-citizen when the new law came into effect (since extinguished) therefore she doesn't come under the 'official way' to dual-citizenship as provided under Law 12 of 2006....which would require the affidavit.
                    She visited UK recently and become a UK citizen as her right of descent from her father.

                    If over 21 it is a requirement to inform the RI embassy when accepting a new citizenship and they will rescind the Indonesian citizenship...being under 21 I'm not sure how the law applies but my guess is she would similarly have to revoke her Indonesian citizenship....just as she would under the 'official way' if she married before age 21.

                    At the top of this page there is an advert for Wijaya & Co. Lawyers...maybe email them.

                    I know many who still maintain their RI citizenship, even after obtaining another citizenship, and use both passports until they expire. That's why I suggested your daughter return on the same passport she left Indonesia...to attract less attention. However, this is getting more and more difficult.

                    e.g. My wife, born and bred Indonesian, changed to Canadian many years ago when we married and immigrated to Canada. She just let her RI passport expire and not renew...we now live in Bali and she's seen as a foreigner on a retiree Kitap.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would prefer my daughter use her Indonesian passport to enter Indonesia this Christmas....but I winder if they will ask her where she was for 6 months...then the conversation could result in her producing a UK passport and then a more difficult conversation. I have been told the safest way is to just enter on her UK passport and the system in place at immigration cannot cross reference a Indonesian passport with the same name, she just becomes a tourist....she never again uses her Indonesian passport and it expires. When she decides to live and work in Indonesia again she can perhaps get a longterm visa as her Mother is Indonesian.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Davita View Post
                        (x) ... If over 21 it is a requirement to inform the RI embassy when accepting a new citizenship and they will rescind the Indonesian citizenship...being under 21 I'm not sure how the law applies but my guess is she would similarly have to revoke her Indonesian citizenship ...

                        (y) That's why I suggested your daughter return on the same passport she left Indonesia...to attract less attention. However, this is getting more and more difficult ...

                        (x) Davita , I guess you are still mixing this subject with the dual citizenship subject . As Rusty0828 said in post no.9 , they never applied for dual citizenship , so she was only Indonesian until she recently got the UK citizenship . As we see the Law below , it is very clear to me that she automatically lost the Indonesian citizenship regardless of her age .

                        CHAPTER IV of UU no.12 , year 2006
                        LOSS OF INDONESIAN CITIZENSHIP
                        Article 23
                        An Indonesian citizen will lose her/his citizenship due to the following:
                        a. Acquires another citizenship voluntarily;
                        .....

                        (y) Returning to Indonesia with the Indonesian passport (the one she used when she left) is an illegal act .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rusty0828 View Post
                          I would prefer my daughter use her Indonesian passport to enter Indonesia this Christmas ...

                          Why you want her to risk being deported ? I understand that it is difficult to get an UK Visa if one is Indonesian , but it is so easy to get an Indonesian Visa if one is an UK citizen . With the UK passport , if she comes to Indonesia for less than 30 days she even can get a 30 days Free Visa-on-arrival . Or USD35 for a 30 days Visa-on-arrival which can be extended for additional 30 days (Rp355'000/USD26 for the extension) . Or USD50 for a 60 days Family Visit Visa which can be extended up to 180 days (Rp355'000 then Rp350'000 , for the monthly extensions) .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you Marcus your advice to use her UK passport is appreciatted...I do not want to risk anything and want everything legal. So based on all the information she will now only use her UK passport when she returns to Indonesia and get visas...once she is in Indonesia we can get some legal advice on what to do with her Indonesian passport.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by marcus View Post


                              (x) Davita , I guess you are still mixing this subject with the dual citizenship subject . As Rusty0828 said in post no.9 , they never applied for dual citizenship , so she was only Indonesian until she recently got the UK citizenship . As we see the Law below , it is very clear to me that she automatically lost the Indonesian citizenship regardless of her age .

                              CHAPTER IV of UU no.12 , year 2006
                              LOSS OF INDONESIAN CITIZENSHIP
                              Article 23
                              An Indonesian citizen will lose her/his citizenship due to the following:
                              a. Acquires another citizenship voluntarily;
                              .....

                              (y) Returning to Indonesia with the Indonesian passport (the one she used when she left) is an illegal act .
                              You are correct...that became clear after post # 9 but it wasn't so clear in previous posts as Rusty was talking about getting an affidavit etc. so his daughter could enter RI as an Indonesian. It seemed entirely possible she had acquired dual-citizenship, under the law of 2006, but had only recently acquired the UK passport to travel. She could have been a dual-citizen without having a passport.

                              That's why I wrote post # 10 to clarify.

                              It's now clear, as you say, that legally she is a UK citizen and should, just like my wife, enter Indonesia as a foreigner with a suitable visa.

                              However, the Minister of Energy (Arcandra Tahar) was able to very quickly become an Indonesian again even tho' he was a USA citizen.
                              Jakarta Post Sept 2016 "The government’s move to restore his Indonesian citizenship has also sparked controversy. “All citizens should bow to existing law regardless of their skills,” said constitutional law expert Feri, who argued that giving Arcandra his Indonesian citizenship back was “ridiculous and unconstitutional”. .

                              But this is Indonesia...what goes for Ministers may not for Rusty's daughter.

                              Comment

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