What's wrong with Indonesia & How to fix it

[Hombre de Maiz]

I, too, am puzzled by this concept of strength and weakness. In a medium of human interaction like an internet forum, the only possible basis for strength and weakness is the value of the information provided and the soundness of the arguments. Am I to understand that weak arguments will now be protected against strong arguments (cited with the proper attribution to forum username)?

To be fair, the points made on that other thread and in this one are different points. Besides, if one makes a point once, can it not be used again, in part or in whole, in another thread and argument? Is citing a forum username bullying? Does protecting users against what s/he said by disallowing citations by name not debase the principle of accountability (for what one says or writes)?

[Gratilla]

Wm and Paman may have, or not, a different view than I. Regarding moderation, Paman and I often have different views I believe.

You can say that again ... and again and again and again and again ...

[ohmdafyd]

Keep the faith, Ade. Ultimately it will happen. It is the job of any people, foreigners or not, to try their best to help Indonesia going that way by choosing the right attitude toward any type of corruption.

Ultimately, Yes I agree, but none of us will be around to see it.
In my own small part of the World there are far more people willing and wanting to pay to jump the queue, speed up the application, avoid the driving test or whatever! It's ingrained behaviour learned from childhood and insidiously part of the Culture that will literally take generations to eradicate.

[thisldome]

[COLOR=#3e3e3e][FONT=Tahoma]Jumped in a taxi the other night and got talking to the driver only to find out he has just finished his MBA, it blew my mind, this is in a western country…[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#3e3e3e][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#3e3e3e][FONT=Tahoma]Thanks for your comments AdeSS, its nice to hear what the locals think, keep talking and some one might listen. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[atlantis]

And now, if you say what's wrong with my country, and how to fix it,.. then i hope nowadays (as many corruption cases appear) we have already find the main problems, and can fix it soon with a good and clear governance, to have a better Indonesia..

Keep the faith, Ade. Ultimately it will happen. It is the job of any people, foreigners or not, to try their best to help Indonesia going that way by choosing the right attitude toward any type of corruption.

[AdeSS]

What's Wrong with indonesia? Everything seems wrong and let it wrong

Dear Foreigners,
Thanks for pay attention to what's happening to my country.

I'm Indonesian, and have the same thought like you many many years ago. Educational? Not only one of the subject. Good schools is only for those who can afford. Now our government is having program to make free tuition for state schools upto grade 9 (if I'm not mistaken).

But now, even now we have brilliant student, they also have to face work competition. Lack of vacancy, become our main problem for years. Bachelor degree jobless, nepotism still become our issue for job seekers. They can't compete with it.

Beside that.. the goverment is busy with who investor can give the best bribery for them. And the fact is now open recently.. You may see on TV News everyday..

Indonesia is potential for tourism. We have plenty beautiful places. But we can't explore more like Malaysia or Thailand. All people know about Indonesia tourism is only Bali. Infact, many more places unseen. Our private sector also have deadlock to manage it, i dont know, maybe stuck on government negotiation as many i heard.

And now, if you say what's wrong with my country, and how to fix it,.. then i hope nowadays (as many corruption cases appear) we have already find the main problems, and can fix it soon with a good and clear governance, to have a better Indonesia..

Rgds
ade

[drahman2in1]

Some friends of mine had passed the enrollment tests for Master or PhD, from top international universities in the world like Oxford University in UK,
Waseda University, Tokyo University in Japan or even Harvard, etc.
They didnt attend expensive schools like UPH,owns by Mr.Riady or other expensive school ...
hm...those friends who are success are really brilliant, hard working, and they never used "Money" to pass those all...not all of them are from rich family, one friend of mine, her father is Metro Mini driver and she could enter one of top universities in Japan, Waseda...

Well I admitted, I did try some and was not success, because at that time, I was not ready for detail of my project I had to prepare in presentation and Im not that good compared to my friends...
Some of the institutions
put priority to them who are working for government or in formal fields...
They came back to Indonesia and work in many fields...

some people here, who can get the chance of good education maybe less than 40% of students...
from my point of view, the main problems are
economic problem, less access to get more information, difficult access to education
and maybe in some places, not good quality of teachers so the student should struggle harder....
big gap is still found here...

But I agree for a poster statement here, that there are some of them who came back and couldnt prove or implement what they had achieved...

so much problems that are still unable to be handled by government but it doesnt mean there's no effort.......(im still wondering though....will they...?)
I wish so much, the government gets serious and try more to reach rural area...

[atlantis]

I would submit to you, Atlantis, that the bullying was from T. to me when she said that my imagination was "crap". Are you going to edit that post also?

Bullying, in my understanding, implies a notion of repetitively harassing someone. I may be wrong in my understanding of the word tho' since, unlike you, I am not a native speaker. Feel free to correct me if my understanding is wrong.
The post I have edited mention a spat you had with this poster, in another thread. Your mention of her in this thread is constitutive of the "repetitive", in my opinion. It is also enforced by the fact that you already made your point in the other thread, I believe. It was unnecessary for you to name her, here, in this thread. It is flaming.
Another notion that "bullying" implies, still in my opinion, is when one does it to a weaker person. Should I understand that you feel weaker than her to feel bullied?

Last, but not least, if you feel offended at any time by a post written, please don't hesitate to push the "report" button. It sends an email to both wm, paman and me. We will take care of it, after assessment, and remove it if necessary. The same applies if you feel that my present answer is biased. Wm and Paman may have, or not, a different view than I. Regarding moderation, Paman and I often have different views I believe.
Salam.

[Hombre de Maiz]

I would submit to you, Atlantis, that the bullying was from T. to me when she said that my imagination was "crap". Are you going to edit that post also?

[atlantis]

.(see, for example, a poster´s complaint that I read too many books and that I´d do well to pick up a woman´s magazine),

I've edited and modified this part of your post Hombre, in order to remove the name of the poster. The board is not to be used for bullying other posters. Thanks.

[Hombre de Maiz]

i agree w. you fully, john.

[JohnJohn2]

Relative to the country's population, John. Does Indonesia supply the international market for professional talent in numbers commeasurate with its population?

What I mean it's not ONLY related to education, but in my opinion there are cultural hindrance/blockage as well.
Asian cultures in general support more to the "immitation" than 'creaitvity". Strong seniority culture also has the same impact in the flight and the lack of Indonesian talents.

Just my opinion. Formal education is only one source of education.

[PakRT]

‘Amerikaku’ Shows the Stories of Indonesian Students in the USA

Did anyone see this story in the Jakarta Globe on January 17 (Sunday)? I missed the first show last week, but I will catch one soon. I’m sure the story should be good. It airs on one of the local channels that is an affiliate of the Voice of America Channel here. VOA recently opened a new office here on Jl. Iman Bonjol.

http://thejakartaglobe.com/artsanden...the-usa/353169
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‘Amerikaku’ Shows the Stories of Indonesian Students in the USA

It is always keen to project its self-image as a place where the world wants to go to live, and now America is making a TV show about how a group of Indonesians get on when their wish to do just that is realized.

Indonesian students increasingly travel to the United States to expand their educational horizons, often as part of exchange programs or to attain a college degree, and four are now being trailed on their voyage by camera crews, courtesy of the US Embassy.

Running as a six-part series exclusively on O Channel, “Amerikaku” (“My America”) documents the story of the four high school students, selected from among thousands of applicants, who are studying in the United States as part of the US State Department’s Youth Exchange and Study program.

Established in 2002, with about 100 Indonesian participants every year, the scholarship program is available for students in “countries with significant Muslim populations to spend up to one academic year in the US,” said Tristram Perry, who, as the public diplomacy officer at the US Embassy in Indonesia, is in charge of the program here.

“Students live with host families, attend high school, engage in activities to learn about American society and values, acquire leadership skills and help educate Americans about their countries and cultures,” he said.

There’s not much Hollywood magic about the show, but the interest in “Amerikaku” lies in the comparing the tales of students all coming from different backgrounds and being sent to live with different families in four different US cities.

The first episode, which aired on Sunday, introduces the audience to the students and their American host families. It begins with a scene at the US Embassy in Jakarta, where the batik-wearing student applicants are nervously waiting for their visa interviews. The students appear edgy, but after the interviews are over, some say it was “not that hard,” and one is surprised that the American interviewer conducted the whole process in Indonesian [emphasis mine].
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Tak Calle, yeh? <grin>.

[Tim M]

"Over 10 years, more than 3,000 top-flight foreign graduates would likely get a job somewhere that pays well (not indonesia)" - fixed

"Many students who are otherwise qualified fail because they don’t understand what is expected of them in an application. Unlike applying to local universities, applications to foreign schools require a plethora of documents, test scores, personal essays, recommendations and, in some cases, interviews. Those unfamiliar with the process can get lost in the jargon and maze of requirements."

Oh those poor dears, they are the brightest people in the education system but they cant work out the requirements for an application all by themselves....

[Hombre de Maiz]

Recently Indonesian students can compete internationally in physics and math. They even win gold, silver or bronze medals in physic and math olympic. So Perhaps it's more than just the educational system.

Relative to the country's population, John. Does Indonesia supply the international market for professional talent in numbers commeasurate with its population?