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Maid and Driver's Salary for 2011

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
    As I said in the post before yours, I don't think domestic employees are covered by the minimum wage laws. I know earlier this year, when there were demonstrations when the minimum wage was only raised marginally, and strikes were called for. I didn't see any maids in the protests.

    And for Jim, I know plenty of college graduates who make minimum wage, plus meal/transport. If you add it all up, I guess it might approach 2 jt. I know it just blew me away when I first heard the figures. My wife worked in the banking and pharmaceutical sectors, and only in the latter sector did wages seem a little more reasonable.
    This is why things need to be kept in perspective. If you are paying your maid close to 2 million, a girl with little education, how can you justify the salary of a fresh graduate secretary of about 2.5 million.

    On a slightly different note. We try to educate our girls, teach them a little about life, show them new things. Today I was a little disturbed when the youngest girl, who has never worked before, told us that her older brother wanted her to give him a large proportion of her salary. Normally it would not bother me, if it was to help the family. Just remember this is her first ever salary.
    It was not to help the family, it was to help him buy a motorbike. Again, this would be normal if he needed transport for work, but no. He want to buy a Kawasaki Ninja, a 28 juta motorbike, and expects his youngest sister to give him her first salary. He said he wanted 1 juta from her before Christmas, as he HAD to have this bike.

    Her handphone is broken, and she wanted to use her very first salary to buy herself a new (cheap) one. With money she had worked for.

    So we explained to her that she should not give him money for luxury items, and only for essential items. We explained the difference between needing something and wanting something.

    So her reply to her brother was quite funny, she explained her handphone was broken, and asked him to send her money so she could buy a new IPhone 4. I think he got the message.
    [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
      I forget which government department publishes the minimum wage for each province. You should check that, if for no other reason than to avoid running afoul of the law. The minimun wage (the floor) is not what the market will bear, but rather what is determined in law.
      Originally posted by nd_eric_77 View Post
      Domestic workers are not covered by the minimum wage laws in Indonesia.
      Domestic workers/Pekerja Rumah Tangga can be happy: the DPR-RI are planning a law to protect them. The law should instaure "decent" minimum salaries on par with the UMP, which may convince a few ibu dan ayah rumah tangga, expats and indonesian, to get a refresher on how to handle the broom.

      However, last April, when I checked the progress of the law, our magnificent DPR were considering a field trip in either Canada or South Africa to study the laws concerning domestic workers there and further refine their own Undang-Undang. Our indonesian pembantu may have to wait that these respectable bapakĀ² come back from their study trip abroad in order to enjoy a protected status and humane salary conditions.

      Thanks to the activism of a few yayasan the law was included for the first time in the prolegnas 2004-2009. Unfortunately we reached the end of the legislature without the law being even discussed. In 2010 and 2011, it has been again registered as a priority by the DPR with again no outcome. In 2012, it is still a priority but having read the draft, I am afraid that PRT will have to wait a bit more before being considered as true workers and enjoying legal rights such as a contract, benefits and salaries which reflect the number of hours worked, the difficulty of their task and which are par with the cost of living in their region of work (cf: Upah Minimum Propinsi and Kebutuhan Hidup Layak).
      Last edited by atlantis; 12-09-12, 13:48.

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      • #63
        Perhaps she should say that she wants an iPhone 5.

        In addition to standard education, perhaps teaching them to save would be a good idea. Maybe match up to 10% of their earnings. Young people don't seem to know how to save, very well, in any country I've been in. Unless taught to do it by parents or employers.
        Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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        • #64
          In light of your post above, what would be considered as the minimum wage to be paid to a maid, living in, in Jakarta.

          If the government are not careful they will actually harm the uneducated population, by making them too expensive to employ.
          [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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          • #65
            I just checked, the minimum wage in Jakarta should be 1,529,150 Rp I think a lot of maids will be out of work. How will that help anybody?
            [COLOR=#666666][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/COLOR]
            [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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            • #66
              Off the top of my head, the Jakarta minimum wage was about 1.5 jt, after the most recent changes.

              Originally posted by jim69 View Post
              In light of your post above, what would be considered as the minimum wage to be paid to a maid, living in, in Jakarta.

              If the government are not careful they will actually harm the uneducated population, by making them too expensive to employ.
              Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
                Perhaps she should say that she wants an iPhone 5.

                In addition to standard education, perhaps teaching them to save would be a good idea. Maybe match up to 10% of their earnings. Young people don't seem to know how to save, very well, in any country I've been in. Unless taught to do it by parents or employers.
                As soon as they get the KTP I will open bank accounts and pay salary there for them, then they can start to understand a little more about saving and how banks work, how to get pulsar online, all these things.
                [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by jim69 View Post
                  I just checked, the minimum wage in Jakarta should be 1,529,150 Rp I think a lot of maids will be out of work. How will that help anybody?
                  [COLOR=#666666][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/COLOR]
                  I don't think this will happen in the near future. If enacted, most Indonesians will pay the same rate they've been paying, anyway. The less than minimum wage work force, excluding maids, is huge.
                  Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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                  • #69
                    If maids are live in, then it is not difficult to show the total benefit being much higher than the minimum wage.
                    [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by jim69 View Post
                      In light of your post above, what would be considered as the minimum wage to be paid to a maid, living in, in Jakarta.
                      If they are recognised as workers by law, they should be entitled to the UMP which is for DKI Jakarta of slightly more than IDR 1,5 million if I recall well. I don't have the figure handy but it seems accurate to me. We can even consider a slightly higher figure since the Kebutuhan Hidup Layak (Minimum required to Live) for 2013 and Jakarta is estimated to be of IDR 1.650.000 due to the inflation we currently have. The UMP will therefore be raised to a similar figure.

                      Originally posted by jim69 View Post
                      [COLOR=#333333]If the government are not careful they will actually harm the uneducated population, by making them too expensive to employ.[/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#333333]
                      IDR 1.500.000 is about IDR 60.000 per day of work if an employee works 25 days a month. Is that expenesive? For some, definitively yes. For the middle and upper class, indonesian and expats, definitively not.

                      As per now the UMP is the mandatory minimum wage in Indonesia for workers. Yet, many companies pay salaries below it. It is not new and it's not gonna stop tomorrow. The same will apply for PRT. Some employers will not pay the minimum salary, either by greedyness or by necessity because they simply can't afford it, and will get away with it.

                      Only a fraction of the PRT will see their conditions improved: they are the skilled one who work for more wealthy families. [/COLOR]

                      Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
                      I don't think this will happen in the near future.
                      There is an increasing pressure on the government at the moment. The UU tentang PRT was one of the promises of Pak SBY and he will have to make sure that the DPR pass it before the end of the legislature (2014).

                      Originally posted by jim69 View Post
                      As soon as they get the KTP I will open bank accounts and pay salary there for them,
                      Do it in a Bank Perkreditan Rakyat. They often have no administration fee unlike Bank Umum who generally charge about IDR 10.000 a month. When your salary isn't big, IDR 10.000 seems a lot.
                      Last edited by atlantis; 12-09-12, 14:19.

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                      • #71
                        I see a problem with the system for live in staff. At the moment all the daily needs for our girls is covered by us, clothes, food, pulsar toiletries etc, and of course a place to sleep and wash.

                        How can this then be calculated into the minimum wage? If you tell them to live out, then a kost and food etc will cost them about 5-800 a month, on average. so the actual disposable income will be about the same or less.

                        Confusing now.
                        [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by jim69 View Post
                          I see a problem with the system for live in staff. At the moment all the daily needs for our girls is covered by us, clothes, food, pulsar toiletries etc, and of course a place to sleep and wash.

                          How can this then be calculated into the minimum wage? If you tell them to live out, then a kost and food etc will cost them about 5-800 a month, on average. so the actual disposable income will be about the same or less.

                          Confusing now.
                          All stipulations concerning upah/salaries for live in or live out will be set by further regulations enacted by local governments. From what I recall from the draft of law, each PRT should have a working contract signed in two exemplaries and should be for a period of 1 year, obviously extendable. The contract should be registered to the Manpower department.

                          A PRT* should be of 18 years minimum and should be working maximum 10 hours in a day. Derogation can be given to PRT whose age is in between 15 and 18 years old, with the written authorisation of their wali/parents but they should not be working more than 4 hours a day and should be given time for school/belajar. The later is a mandatory provision.

                          Any PRT should be entitle to 1 full month of salary as THR. Any PRT should be authorised one day off minimum per week and at least 12 days off per year (on top of the weekly rest of course).
                          Time should be given for prayer and other religious obligation.

                          The supervisation and enforcement of the rules will be done by Nakertrans, but also by the Pak lurah/kepala desa/pak RT with the power of inflicting administrative sanction.

                          It's obvious that the law will be enforced selectively. nakertrans is certainly not gonna be interested to check if all stipulations are respected in villages among families which aren't assumed wealthy. However, if you live in the same town than nakertrans office, if you are assumed to be wealthy (don't worry, if you are expat couple, a mixed indo/expat couple or an indonesian of chinese descent family, you ARE assumed to be wealthy ), nakertrans may be interested to check if you comply with the law.



                          *Are considered PRT, not only the maids. The tukang kebun, driver, private satpam, nurses...etc are included in the law.
                          Last edited by atlantis; 12-09-12, 15:58.

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                          • #73
                            there you go,,, some will definetely dEg Deg seR with this (new regulations)... Thank u so much for the explanation pak Atlantis, so the maids dont need to speak. Thanks for speaking the soon-to-be (hopefully) newest undang2. Many worries to them with underpaid n under-age maids surely,,, thanks for the thoughts bapak2 anggota DPR,,,

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                            • #74
                              What about families who rely on the small money they get as a maid. Many will be out of a job, and I think if the law is enforced it will become such a pain in the ass to hire a maid, better to just do it yourself.
                              I never needed a maid in the UK, I did not when i first came here.

                              It will just become a black market operation, like so many other jobs here.

                              I only took a second maid as a favour to the first one, who wanted her friend to work. If the rules are enforced then I wont be in a position to employ both of them.
                              [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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                              • #75
                                The old brother who wants to buy a fancy motorcycle, ha? My favorite are the stories about the fathers who decide that they are already too exhausted (sudah capek) to work.

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