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Maid and Driver's Salary for 2011

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  • #46
    Originally posted by jim69 View Post
    Maybe in your case it is. We dont exploit anyone, the two girls that work for us are very happy and have told us this on many occasions.
    Depends on what you pay them. I pay 1.8 mil for a five day week.
    "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
    George Bernard Shaw

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    • #47
      I have already explained all that. No need to do it again.

      If your maid is happy and your happy then its all good, and the same applies to us. To me the important part is giving the girls some education if they stay with us 3 years. That way they don't have to work as a maid all their lives. They are both learning English every day from my wife, they enjoy being with us, and are learning new things all the time.

      We keep in contact with their parents, to ensure that they still follow family rules. My wife makes sure that they pray regularly as their family has requested. We are not Muslim, but have made sure they have prayer mats and give them time for this, even insisting on it when they forget.

      Its not all about the money you know.
      [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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      • #48
        Originally posted by jim69 View Post
        Its not all about the money you know.
        I agree but it doesn't necessarily have to be either/or. You could do all the above and pay them a decent salary as well.
        "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
        George Bernard Shaw

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        • #49
          I feel we are paying them a decent salary, as I have said, they are happy.
          [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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          • #50
            Originally posted by lantern
            [COLOR=#333333]Unfortunately 'part of the family' is often a fig leaf for exploitation.
            [/COLOR]
            [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#333333]
            [/COLOR][/COLOR]
            Originally posted by jim69
            [COLOR=#333333]Maybe in your case it is.[/COLOR]
            [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#333333]
            Hey guys - both of these posts have the potential to be read the wrong way. To be fair, lantern was talking about the general case, not jim specifically. "Maybe in your family it is" was surely not meant to imply that lantern mistreats his staff. No doubt both jim69 and lantern are fair to their household employees. So let's take that as a given and be sure the conversation continues in a civil manner - which, in the time it has taken me to compose this note and consult with mods, it seems like it probably is.Thanks.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

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            • #51
              Salary can always be a touchy subject. 1.8 jt a month would be horrid slave wages in much of the West. Households in Jakarta with non-expats are going to pay less than expats.

              As is the case with most things, I try to adopt local pricing and customs, when I'm living in a foreign country. My Indonesian wife told me the same prices, long before Jim ever posted his. While some may disagree with it, I think it's the norm for households with at least one Indonesian in it.

              Offering them an educational benefit is good, too.
              Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
                As is the case with most things, I try to adopt local pricing and customs, when I'm living in a foreign country.
                Sure, but I think we shouldn't leave our sense of right and wrong at the airport.

                Domestic workers are paid disproportionately low compared to jobs with similar levels of responsibility and skills and compared to the number of hours worked.
                "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                George Bernard Shaw

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                • #53
                  The informal job sector in Indonesia is quite large. There are many millions of people who work for less than the mandated minimum wage. I recall that domestic employees are excluded from this, but am not 100% sure.

                  It seems quite common for women in their 40's to be forced to "retire". Men also, are often unemployable by their early 50's. I think it's a real shame, if they want to work.

                  I don't think that any active participants in this thread are involved in slave labor, or indentured servitude. There are people who pay 500k per month, and keep the same employees for years. Then there is the employee who works half days and is unhappy with 2 jt. As long as you enter into an honest agreement with your employee, that is at prevailing wages, I don't understand the problem.

                  Originally posted by lantern View Post
                  Sure, but I think we shouldn't leave our sense of right and wrong at the airport.

                  Domestic workers are paid disproportionately low compared to jobs with similar levels of responsibility and skills and compared to the number of hours worked.
                  Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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                  • #54
                    I forget which government department publishes the minimum wage for each province. You should check that, if for no other reason than to avoid running afoul of the law. The minimun wage (the floor) is not what the market will bear, but rather what is determined in law.

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                    • #55
                      For a young girl with no education 6-800K a month is what they expect.
                      If they can speak some English and are older and more experienced then they can expect more.

                      A starting salary for a fresh graduate secretary is only about 2-2.5 Juta.

                      So in the scale of things what I am paying the girls is about right.

                      If expats feel that it is not enough then why not pay what you would pay in Europe. Just paying a little more does not change what you are saying. Pay the market rate for the country you are in, or pay European rates.

                      So if you want to pay your maid what would be considered in Europe a fair salary for a 5 day week, pay her 14 Juta. If not then just pay the market rate for this country.
                      [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                        I forget which government department publishes the minimum wage for each province. You should check that, if for no other reason than to avoid running afoul of the law. The minimun wage (the floor) is not what the market will bear, but rather what is determined in law.
                        Domestic workers are not covered by the minimum wage laws in Indonesia.
                        This space is available for rent.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by jim69 View Post

                          If expats feel that it is not enough then why not pay what you would pay in Europe. Just paying a little more does not change what you are saying. Pay the market rate for the country you are in, or pay European rates.

                          So if you want to pay your maid what would be considered in Europe a fair salary for a 5 day week, pay her 14 Juta. If not then just pay the market rate for this country.
                          Probably more realistic to double or triple the 'market' rate rather than suggesting that it's pittance or European wages.
                          "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                          George Bernard Shaw

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                          • #58
                            The problem with that is makes a joke out of the salaries for fresh graduates.

                            As I have said, if your maid is happy, then its good, the same applies for us.

                            All happy, all good.
                            [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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                            • #59
                              Lantern, I know you're (com)passionate about these things and you want a better life for these people but by doing so, all that you achieve is creating a rift in society. The ones in Southern Jakarta who are able to speak a bit of English get a very privileged position. Also, what happens when the ex-pats leave after 3 years and when there are no jobs with the same perks available? That won't be pretty.

                              Talking about discrepancies between foreigners and locals: This reminds me a bit of situation on the housing markets (in different regions in many countries); often locals can not afford a house in their own region anymore since rich foreigners buy all the land and are willing to pay much higher prices.
                              Last edited by jstar; 11-09-12, 13:03.
                              [FONT=arial black]
                              [/FONT]

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                                I forget which government department publishes the minimum wage for each province. You should check that, if for no other reason than to avoid running afoul of the law. The minimun wage (the floor) is not what the market will bear, but rather what is determined in law.
                                As I said in the post before yours, I don't think domestic employees are covered by the minimum wage laws. I know earlier this year, when there were demonstrations when the minimum wage was only raised marginally, and strikes were called for. I didn't see any maids in the protests.

                                And for Jim, I know plenty of college graduates who make minimum wage, plus meal/transport. If you add it all up, I guess it might approach 2 jt. I know it just blew me away when I first heard the figures. My wife worked in the banking and pharmaceutical sectors, and only in the latter sector did wages seem a little more reasonable.
                                Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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