Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Maid and Driver's Salary for 2011

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by john madden View Post
    Don't recall any such implication - there's been to and fro over wage levels but I don't think anyone wants to deny work to those who need it or assistance to those who can afford it.
    I think it's more than that John. The fuss seems to have started when someone noted they didn't wish to eat a half chicken because their maid had consumed the other half before they got home. It was immediately termed that the evil rich person would have the servant starve rather than offer them scraps from the table.

    The original comment noted nothing about holding wages or food from the maid, but was placed in the position of the 'eveil rich guy' without regard to the employee/employer relationship.

    Now the comments continue with the thought that the wealthy always abuse those of lesser income. ....to the extent that one has suggested this 'abuse' will lead to revolution.
    I think that would be the exact image of class warfare.
    Just because you got the monkey off your back doesn't mean the circus has left town!

    Comment


    • In an earlier post, Howie, you said that you hadn't read all the thread. The posts you highlight above were far from representative of the views expressed throughout.

      Comment


      • This whole debate over who eats what food really is a smokescreen. Some people are happy with the established social norms of Indonesian culture, and others prefer the social norms of western countries. Domestic employees are pretty much a necessity for people in the middle class and above. For a middle-class Jakarta family of four with a monthly combined income of 10 juta, the salaries requested by maids on the "Household Staff" section of this website are simply unrealistic.

        There is no shame in an expat choosing to employ domestic helpers from the same labor pool as that drawn upon by local families, and there certainly is no shame in an expat paying a salary within the same range as locals pay (ie: 0 - 10% more than the market rate). This is especially true when expats have an extensive enough grasp of Bahasa Indonesia to be able to hire helpers who speak no English.

        If people want to champion egalitarian working conditions for their staff, then that is their business. I prefer to champion modest personal financial decisions and not contributing to cost-of-living inflation for the Jakarta middle class. And yes, increases in average maid / nanny salaries are direct increases cost-of-living for Jakarta middle class families.
        This space is available for rent.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by john madden View Post
          In an earlier post, Howie, you said that you hadn't read all the thread. The posts you highlight above were far from representative of the views expressed throughout.
          As far as I can tell, I have read every post in this thread. The current trend is to attack the local person for comparing herself to Princess Diana (whom people seem to have canonized). NONE of these people have addressed the underlying point that in cultures around the world, people who can afford domestic servants often do not eat at the same dinner table as those servants. Instead of addressing the merits of the argument, those people have attacked the person making that argument. Ad-hominem much?

          Put another way, do you want to eat dinner together with your maid? Fine, that is between you and your maid. But it also does not mean that others' decision to keep a distance between "majikan" and "pembantu" is somehow morally inferior to your decision.
          Last edited by nd_eric_77; 30-10-12, 06:49. Reason: misspelling
          This space is available for rent.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by john madden View Post
            In an earlier post, Howie, you said that you hadn't read all the thread. The posts you highlight above were far from representative of the views expressed throughout.
            I don't think I tried to address the views expressed throughout. ....just the ones I replied to. I certainly don't think the forum has a prevailing position towards those who are wealthy or those who are economically challenged. But there are some on both ends of the spectrum who do seem to have a stance that the poor are lazy and uneducated or that the rich are abusive and greedy.
            Just because you got the monkey off your back doesn't mean the circus has left town!

            Comment


            • I think it all needs to be put into perspective.

              Salaries in Indonesia are much lower than in the western world. That's why so many businesses are here. If we, as expats, drive up salaries from the bottom, we are actually doing harm to the country in which we now live.

              We should come here and fit into what is the norm.

              How can you pay almost the same to a young girl with no education in your home, that you are paying to your staff at work who have spent 4 years in University getting a degree.

              It is not about abusing the young girl, its about what is normal and expected.

              I also never call our maids "servants" i just dislike this word. But thats just me.
              [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jim69 View Post
                I think it all needs to be put into perspective.

                Salaries in Indonesia are much lower than in the western world. That's why so many businesses are here. If we, as expats, drive up salaries from the bottom, we are actually doing harm to the country in which we now live.

                We should come here and fit into what is the norm.

                How can you pay almost the same to a young girl with no education in your home, that you are paying to your staff at work who have spent 4 years in University getting a degree.

                It is not about abusing the young girl, its about what is normal and expected.

                I also never call our maids "servants" i just dislike this word. But thats just me.
                Why not consider the positive economic benefits of families having a bit more money to spend with which they can consume more in the form of a better education for their kids and better nourishment in the form of better food which leads to a better educated and healthier population. The idea that I pay my domestic worker a pathetic salary because I don't want to harm Indonesia is not to be taken seriously. Anyway, there are inflationary pressures in all areas of the economy and as expats make up a tiny proportion of the population their impact is minimal.
                "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • SO you would also pay your secretary and all other staff in your business a bit more than the average also?
                  [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • Why don't you all pay the average, acceptable salaries to your maid,-- acceptable by locals and the nouveau riche-- for example if the going on rate for locals is Rp.600,000 - Rp. 700,000 than the expat could pay Rp. 900,000 instead of a jump of Rp. 1,800,000.

                    Again you also need to consider how much work they have to do. Maybe in the local house hold they only need to take care 150-200 sqm2 house when expat house can be 3 times the size.

                    If say, you do concern with the living condition of your maid, instead of giving her/him a ridiculous amount of money, pay their children tuition. In fact I know a couple that build a house for their maids (husband&wife) but keep their combine income at Rp. 2,000,000 mothly.

                    [COLOR=#333333]This whole debate over who eats what food really is a smokescreen. Some people are happy with the established social norms of Indonesian culture, and others prefer the social norms of western countries. Domestic employees are pretty much a necessity for people in the middle class and above. For a middle-class Jakarta family of four with a monthly combined income of 10 juta, the salaries requested by maids on the "Household Staff" section of this website are simply unrealistic.[/COLOR]

                    [COLOR=#333333]There is no shame in an expat choosing to employ domestic helpers from the same labor pool as that drawn upon by local families, and there certainly is no shame in an expat paying a salary within the same range as locals pay (ie: 0 - 10% more than the market rate). This is especially true when expats have an extensive enough grasp of Bahasa Indonesia to be able to hire helpers who speak no English.[/COLOR]

                    [COLOR=#333333]If people want to champion egalitarian working conditions for their staff, then that is their business. I prefer to champion modest personal financial decisions and not contributing to cost-of-living inflation for the Jakarta middle class. And yes, increases in average maid / nanny salaries are direct increases cost-of-living for Jakarta middle class families.[/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • Rotisserie chicken, class warfare, defunct British royalty, wow! The religion polemics are nowhere as vitriolic or as far ranging as these fine debates here...

                      Comment


                      • Missnaughty sounds like my mother

                        Can't agree with her, but can't disagree as well, because "your mother told you so"

                        Guys,
                        It's true that majority of Indonesian doing the same thing as what she does. Separating, classifying, etc between Majikan and Pembantu.

                        Used to be it was no issue, as people were accustomed to it. My family also does the same thing, we had few domestic helpers who is very loyal to us, one which has been working for our family since my father a child (around 40 years plus).

                        But currently, as part of globalisation i suppose, you will find this kind of loyalty rare in the young domestic helpers. They tend to likened the equal type of treatment, just like how they idolise K-Pop stars as typical Indonesian youngsters do. That's why my mother currently having issues to find the right maid to accompany our other maids who is already 60+ and can't manage the housework alone.

                        Anyway, finding a maid is like finding a soulmate, you just have to find the right one.

                        Apologise to interrupt the riots
                        Last edited by henry_mariono; 30-10-12, 17:55.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
                          Why don't you all pay the average, acceptable salaries to your maid,-- acceptable by locals and the nouveau riche-- for example if the going on rate for locals is Rp.600,000 - Rp. 700,000 than the expat could pay Rp. 900,000 instead of a jump of Rp. 1,800,000.

                          Again you also need to consider how much work they have to do. Maybe in the local house hold they only need to take care 150-200 sqm2 house when expat house can be 3 times the size.

                          If say, you do concern with the living condition of your maid, instead of giving her/him a ridiculous amount of money, pay their children tuition. In fact I know a couple that build a house for their maids (husband&wife) but keep their combine income at Rp. 2,000,000 mothly.
                          Thats exactly what we do pay, and my house is not more than 200 sq meters.
                          I already promised education for her, she does not have children.

                          Enough from me now.
                          [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • Hi Jim...

                            My post has nothing to do with you.. I said you for plural you. You do fine... don't worry. I think somebody stated that paying local rate doesn't mean you less kind than others..

                            Regarding Princess Di, No I never meet her, my ex boyfriend did. But I met President Soeharto and Ibu Tien Soeharto.. does that count?

                            Comment


                            • Name dropping usually works best if you pick living celebrities.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
                                Hi Jim...

                                My post has nothing to do with you.. I said you for plural you. You do fine... don't worry. I think somebody stated that paying local rate doesn't mean you less kind than others..

                                Regarding Princess Di, No I never meet her, my ex boyfriend did. But I met President Soeharto and Ibu Tien Soeharto.. does that count?
                                I met Ronnie Raygun in '87. Does that trump a Di and two Soehartos?
                                Just because you got the monkey off your back doesn't mean the circus has left town!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X