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  • Settling in Indonesia

    Hello,

    I'm brand new on the forum and looking for some guidance.

    I am a Canadian born citizen and my wife is Javanese. We have submitted a family class sponsorship application for her permanent residence here in Canada. I'm currently here in Canada and she's living in Jawa Tengah. If our sponsorship application for some unforeseen reason ends up in rejection then we will be intending on settling in Indonesia together. Which brings me to my questions..

    If she was to sponsor me for ITAS what are the circumstances of me being able to work in Indonesia? I do not have a university degree and I'm not sure that I could find company sponsored work.

    Would I qualify for ITAP after two years of marriage or after two years of extensions of the ITAS?

    If we were to start a business such as opening a small restaurant roughly how much money upfront would we need to get it off the ground?

    Your advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by TimFo8594; 14-04-16, 09:33.

  • #2
    On the ITAS and ITAP front you are correct - they are the visas you would be aiming to get with your wife as your sponsor.
    Working here would be difficult for you especially as if you were lucky enough to get a job the ITAS would be sponsored by your company and not count towards time served in order to get the ITAP. However under both visas their is the facility for you to be employed by a company owned by your wife, however the exact terms of that "owned by your wife" outline are a very murky grey area with contradictions prevailing from province to province.

    Comment


    • #3
      And so there is no way that I could secure employment without having to obtain a company sponsored work permit and ITAS by having a spouse sponsored residence visa?

      If not it would seem that starting some sort of business would be the way to go, although I have no idea what kind of amount of cash flow would be needed for such an endeavor.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Tim...as a fellow Canadian I welcome you to the forum.

        There is no reason your wife cannot continue her application to Canada except I believe she will need to live there, for a certain period, after becoming a 'landed immigrant'.
        I became a Canadian citizen by immigration to Canada in 1990 as did my Indonesian wife. I kept dual nationality (UK-Canadian) but my wife had to give up being Indonesian (RI doesn't allow dual-nationality, as yet).

        You should keep this in mind as we now live in Indonesia on Retirement Visas and my wife is seen (by law) as a foreigner with no citizenship rights..yet she was born in RI, schooled in RI, worked and was taxed in RI.

        No matter your future plans I suggest you pursue getting a spousal Kitas now...it can be changed later if circumstances change.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Davita View Post
          Hi Tim...as a fellow Canadian I welcome you to the forum.

          There is no reason your wife cannot continue her application to Canada except I believe she will need to live there, for a certain period, after becoming a 'landed immigrant'.
          I became a Canadian citizen by immigration to Canada in 1990 as did my Indonesian wife. I kept dual nationality (UK-Canadian) but my wife had to give up being Indonesian (RI doesn't allow dual-nationality, as yet).

          You should keep this in mind as we now live in Indonesia on Retirement Visas and my wife is seen (by law) as a foreigner with no citizenship rights..yet she was born in RI, schooled in RI, worked and was taxed in RI.

          No matter your future plans I suggest you pursue getting a spousal Kitas now...it can be changed later if circumstances change.
          Yes, we don't intend on ending her application to Canada, I am just looking for information about settling/ finding work in Indonesia should our application not work out. Singapore Visa Office which is where our application is being processed has a high refusal rate and so we are trying to prepare a plan B.

          How would pursuing a KITAS work exactly when I live here in Canada currently? I need to continue to reside here for the sake of our application or I would have to demonstrate that we intend to settle here and if I left my job here to be in Indonesia we would need me to be working to have a steady income.

          This is why I am asking about obtaining employment in RI through a spousal sponsored resident visa and if that's even at all possible as well as asking about the general amount of funds needed to start a business of some sort in RI.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TimFo8594 View Post
            (1) ... If she was to sponsor me for ITAS what are the circumstances of me being able to work in Indonesia? ...

            (2) Would I qualify for ITAP after two years of marriage ...?

            (3) If we were to start a business such as opening a small restaurant roughly how much money upfront would we need to get it off the ground?

            (1) I think your best option is ITAS/KITAS sponsored by your Indonesian wife . According to some members of this Forum , you could work with or without a Work Permit (IMTA) .
            - With an IMTA : this would be 100% safe , but I suppose it would be difficult to be hired by an Indonesian based company as only relatively big companies can get you an IMTA , and only for experienced workers (something like 5 years work experience in a single work position) .
            - Without an IMTA : although there is a new Indonesian Law which gives you rights of work and do business (when with a KITAS/KITAP) , there is yet no regulation detailing this situation . Older rules only allow foreigners to work with an IMTA , foreigners cannot be hired by individuals or small companies , foreigners can only open a relatively big company (PT PMA) , and Indonesian spouses could not open a small company without a prenup/wealth separation .

            (2) Yes .

            (3) So , in your name you cannot open a small business . I suppose that even without that said prenup , some Indonesian spouses of foreigners have succeeded in opening small business , and their foreign spouses have been working (non-officially) in these businesses without an IMTA . I don't know how safe these situations are .


            http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...382#post245382 (see below a partial copy of Atlantis'post no.36)
            [..I have discussed with middle and high ranking pejabat (government officer) in the immigration who told me: for us (read: immigration officer) you are authorized to work. The "for us" has importance. It means that as long as nakertrans (Manpower government office) does not chime in, immigration may not bother you. If your wife opens her own business, you have reasonnable chances to be ignored by nakertrans. Why? Because your wife has no chance to get an IMTA for you if it is a family business...]

            http://percaindonesia.com/catatan-so...-7-maret-2015/ (Married with Indonesians - work situations)

            http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...018#post246018 (no work permit for KITAS ikut istri , work in the wife's business??)

            http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...042#post224042 (IMTA+Indo spouse KITAS)

            http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...ependent-KITAS (work at home , Atlantis position)

            Comment


            • #7
              Another option is to find a job you can work remotely. I have a small business in the US. I go back a couple of times a year.
              Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you for your very detailed reply and the links I'll read over now.

                The reason I was inquiring about working on spousal ITAS is exactly what you pointed out about this apparent new law allowing a spouse to work without ITMA. I couldn't seem to find any official information about it.

                I currently work work in a distribution/ supply chain company as a warehouse management systems controller. I use a computer software program to monitor, evaluate and direct work flow in the warehouse. I have over 5 years experience in this role.. I dunno if that is transferable into something in RI.

                My wife and I have no prenup as we didn't think we would need one, turns out maybe we did for the sake of running a business. I know I can rather easily obtain the ITAS through my wife sponsoring it but it seems that generating an income while living in RI seems to be the hard part.

                What difference in needing an ITMA, if any, come with the full ITAP opposed to ITAS? And so when we hit our two year anniversary regardless if I had ITAS for this period I could obtain a ITAP?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
                  Another option is to find a job you can work remotely. I have a small business in the US. I go back a couple of times a year.

                  That is an interesting idea, although I have no experience with working remotely and don't know where to start with that avenue.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TimFo8594 View Post
                    Thank you for your very detailed reply and the links I'll read over now.

                    The reason I was inquiring about working on spousal ITAS is exactly what you pointed out about this apparent new law allowing a spouse to work without ITMA. I couldn't seem to find any official information about it.

                    I currently work work in a distribution/ supply chain company as a warehouse management systems controller. I use a computer software program to monitor, evaluate and direct work flow in the warehouse. I have over 5 years experience in this role.. I dunno if that is transferable into something in RI.
                    ..........
                    Check Lazada Indonesia. Going gangbusters
                    @
                    lazada.co.id

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TimFo8594 View Post
                      ...


                      If we were to start a business such as opening a small restaurant roughly how much money upfront would we need to get it off the ground?

                      Your advice is greatly appreciated.

                      Thank you.
                      Not sure if anyone answered you this question. The amount of money you need to invest in a restaurant depends mainly from location - where your restaurant is going to be, size, is there any kitchen already build in. Those are the major costs.
                      I will underline this - we are talking here about restaurant not warung.

                      I have seen restaurants in Bandung with injected £ 6-digits (including getting permits, adaptation of the building to meet specific requirements eg. decoration, kitchen, furniture). The building you would probably have to rent out to minimize the costs + the rental agreement in such investment / business is signed for 3-5 years (mostly up front down payment) and sometimes more (10-20 years). There is also no warranty you business will go well no matter how much money you will pump into it.

                      If you want to open a restaurant eg. SuhiTei restro AS A FRANCHISE min. investment is USD 500 000 and I don't think the costs of building are included into that capital.

                      If you never have worked or have no idea about business in food industry .... better get a franchise and see where it will go from there.


                      My question is what is your location going to be and capital?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TimFo8594 View Post
                        ...

                        I currently work work in a distribution/ supply chain company as a warehouse management systems controller. I use a computer software program to monitor, evaluate and direct work flow in the warehouse. I have over 5 years experience in this role.. I dunno if that is transferable into something in RI.
                        I think I have seen somewhere an article saying that some industrial branches cannot get working permit and your fall into that category - logistics.

                        Marcus if you are reading this is logistic (and there were few 4-5 other occupations) that are excluded to get working permit?

                        Can I obtain a work permit (IMTA) regardless of my position in the company?

                        As a foreign national, you cannot pursue a professional endeavor in the following sectors:
                        • Human Resources department
                        • Legal department
                        • Health, safety, and environment affairs
                        • Supply chain management
                        • Quality control and inspection

                        (ESDM Regulation no. 31, Year 2013, Article 4)
                        Generally speaking, if you work outside of the mentioned sectors, you are eligible to apply for a work permit (IMTA).
                        http://www.indosight.com/blog/2015-n...ons-indonesia/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Restaurant isn't a business I'd encourage. Too many pitfalls.

                          If you just work on the computer, see if you can do it from here. Internet is much improved lately if you live in a fiber area. Skype, voip calling, remote ringing, etc all help a lot.
                          Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TimFo8594 View Post
                            (a) ... What difference in needing an ITMA, if any, come with the full ITAP opposed to ITAS?

                            (b) And so when we hit our two year anniversary regardless if I had ITAS for this period I could obtain a ITAP?

                            (a) No difference .

                            (b) When you hit 2 years you become eligible for the ITAP/KITAP , but you can only request it when with a ITAS/KITAS (KITAS to KITAP process) .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SmallWorld View Post
                              I think I have seen somewhere an article saying that some industrial branches cannot get working permit and your fall into that category - logistics.

                              Marcus if you are reading this is logistic (and there were few 4-5 other occupations) that are excluded to get working permit? ...

                              I just checked the reference , and if we are talking about the same one , it is only applicable to Oil & Gas companies . But for sure there are other regulations , so we cannot tell if Tim (OP) is eligible for a Work Permit .


                              ----------------------------------------


                              from http://www.indosight.com
                              [As a foreign national, you cannot pursue a professional endeavor in the following sectors:

                              • Human Resources department
                              • Legal department
                              • Health, safety, and environment affairs
                              • Supply chain management
                              • Quality control and inspection

                              (ESDM Regulation no. 31, Year 2013, Article 4)]


                              -----------------------------------------


                              PERATURAN MENTERI ENERGI DAN SUMBER DAYA MINERAL REPUBLIK INDONESIA NOMOR: 31 TAHUN 2013 TENTANG KETENTUAN DAN TATA CARA PENGGUNAAN TENAGA KERJA ASING DAN PENGEMBANGAN TENAGA KERJA INDONESIA PADA KEGIATAN USAHA MINYAK DAN GAS BUMI
                              ............
                              Pasal 3
                              (1) Penggunaan TKA pada Kegiatan Usaha Minyak dan Gas Bumi sebagaimana dimaksud ....
                              (2) Bidang pekerjaan tertentu yang tidak dapat dijabat oleh TKA adalah sebagai berikut:
                              a. personalia;
                              b. legal;
                              c. Health and Safety Environment (HSE);
                              d. supply chain management, yang mencakup procurement, material dan logistik;
                              e. quality control, termasuk juga kegiatan Inspection;
                              f. jabatan struktural pada kegiatan eksplorasi dan eksploitasi di bawah level superintendent atau jabatan struktural yang setara.
                              Last edited by marcus; 14-04-16, 22:31.

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