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  • #16
    Originally posted by SXL24 View Post
    If the groom's parents have to ask permission, doesn't that imply that they are already on board with it. .
    I did not say the groom's parents have to ask permission - you misread/misrepresented me.

    Since I stated that I would not participate in the thread any more (even though I started the discussion, I don't really want to derail a thread about a happy occasion into a debate), I won't say anything more, except to ask that you not try to draw me into the discussion again. I'm trying to stay out!
    Last edited by Puspawarna; 17-02-15, 14:21.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
      Well, if I "jumped down anyone's throat" I apologize for that, and I will leave this thread after this post.
      Liar, liar, pants on fire.
      Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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      • #18
        Can somebody tell me if permission is ever refused or is it just a ceremonial issue? I know it wasn't that long ago in Britain that well-mannered gentlemen would seek the permission of the parents of the bride-to-be. Unless he was a known serial killer, permission would usually be granted.
        "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
        George Bernard Shaw

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        • #19
          Originally posted by lantern View Post
          Can somebody tell me if permission is ever refused or is it just a ceremonial issue? I know it wasn't that long ago in Britain that well-mannered gentlemen would seek the permission of the parents of the bride-to-be. Unless he was a known serial killer, permission would usually be granted.
          This is a bit more complicated because if the parents will refuse their daughter may run away with the "husband to be" and her parents would not want it.
          Parents want their children to be happy if the "bride to be" is happy and in love why they should refuse.
          I know many cases where the husband bule was "not welcome" on the beginning, some of them so extreme that the couple has to leave Indonesia and the family stop helping their children.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
            Liar, liar, pants on fire.
            [SIZE=4]Hey! I ...... [/SIZE] [SIZE=1]oops ......[/SIZE]

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            • #21
              Originally posted by SMALLWORLD View Post
              This is a bit more complicated because if the parents will refuse their daughter may run away with the "husband to be" and her parents would not want it.
              Parents want their children to be happy if the "bride to be" is happy and in love why they should refuse.
              I know many cases where the husband bule was "not welcome" on the beginning, some of them so extreme that the couple has to leave Indonesia and the family stop helping their children.
              OK, so the bride isn't a prisoner. I've seen cases of marriages splitting families where permission wasn't an issue to begin with. Perhaps the 'bules not welcome' should cue more outrage.
              "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
              George Bernard Shaw

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              • #22
                and if they say no, just start humming:

                "Marry that girl
                Marry her anyway
                Marry that girl
                Yeah, no matter what you say
                Marry that girl
                And we'll be a family
                Why you gotta be so
                Rude"

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                • #23
                  To add a more 21st century perspective on things personally I would just ask the girl herself. She is old enough and smart enough to go all the way to Paris and therefore I am sure she is old enough and smart enough to make her own decision on whether she wants to marry you. Buy a ring, take her to dinner somewhere romantic and pop the question. Let her sort all the shit out with her family. Seriously that would be the best way forward for everyone involved trust me.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by namaku_jayb View Post
                    Hi there,

                    My gf is Indonesian Chinese and from Christian family. She's an expat in Paris, we live in the same city as I am native French from Christian family too.

                    We'll be visiting her family in Java next March, I've already met her family when they came to Europe last year. I'd like to ask her parents their permission to marry her and then propose her.

                    Anyone of you went through this or knows about the tradition with Christian families when it comes to ask the daughter's hand ? I'd like to ask her parents without her around so that it would be a real surprise to her when she receives the little blue box. But I don't know much about the indonesian christian tradition for this... Should I make my speech to the family directly like we (used to) do in western culture ? Invite them in a restaurant ? Asking when I am staying at their place ? Bringing gifts ?

                    One last point to mention : her parents were not really happy at the beginning to see her daughter with a bule and on top of that living abroad for while.. That may add a little complexity to my situation...

                    Any helpful inputs or shared experience would be very much welcome !

                    Terima Kasih !
                    JayB
                    Her parents worried that you live together (or see each other often) and do intercourse before marriage. They worry you'll leave her broken hearted, or worse, pregnant with your child. Even without those things, they may worry that you will take their daughter away. When her parents are old or sick, it's more difficult for her to come back home, to visit or take care of them.

                    You have a good intention, so asking their blessing to marry their daughter is great. Convince them that you love her. In a restaurant or just in their house, speech or just a private talk, are all fine. Gifts... are ok, but not related to your request to marry their daughter. And I prefer they don't see it as a bribe for them to say yes.
                    I find it sooo sweet that you will surprise her with the little blue box. Cool.

                    There's no particular Indonesian Christian tradition for marriage proposal. Though there is some Chinese tradition for engagement, marriage proposal, and the wedding. I find it complicated (and avoidable in my case :P) I chose not to do it. Anyway, if you like to do it, you can discuss the details with your gf and her fam later after she says yes.

                    There are some procedures you have to follow when you marry in Christian way, depends on the church. Both of you are Christians, so I see no problems here. Wish you the best!
                    Last edited by merahputih; 19-02-15, 21:53. Reason: typo

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                    • #25
                      It all depends on the family and what they value. One thing I am sure of here is that Chinese Indonesian families vary greatly in respect to values and culture.

                      When I proposed I followed what would be respectful to my in-laws and I'm so glad I did. It showed them that I respect them, which I do greatly, and that respect has payed off x1000 over the years. I feel like I am part of their family and they are ALWAYS there if they can help us in any way. Maybe I got lucky and married into a good family, but respect is a two way street. But I'm sure if I just went all maverick when I got married and cut the family out my decision to marry their daughter I would have regret it.

                      Of course, all families are different. YMMV

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                      • #26
                        Does she have siblings?

                        Chinese children are expected to take care of their parents when they are old. More sons than daughters, but if she is an only child, this will fall to her.
                        This is not a slight cultural thing to be overlooked. I know everyone may jump all over me to think money can't effect peoples decisions and it is all about love and happiness. My girlfriend explained this to me at great length (she is Chinese Indonesian from Java). Both of her parents are already deceased, so it doesn't effect me. This was one of the primary reasons she had five siblings. When the parents were sick, the children all pitched in to take care of them.

                        A few people have touched on it, but I was told that families (your parents or older relatives) would be having informal talks with their family. The signals would be given, then you would talk with her parents or family members as a later stage. Think closer to arranged marriage, but negotiated. Discussions would be about future, money, who cares for the parents, money, family name and status, money, assets, and the possibility of divorce. The last one is a very big deal to Chinese families. It is one of the greatest shames to the whole family. (If your husband beats you or cheats, you take it, but you can't get divorced.) They are probably concerned with you two shacking up because if the gets pregnant while unwed that is also great shame to the family. In the old days a child to an unwed mother couldn't get into a good school.

                        For most it is not the Christianity but it is the Chinese that is more of the cultural influence in the traditions. Most Chinese Indonesians were Confucius until one or two generations ago. My girlfriends parents were both Confucius until the government effectively banned it. Then she was sent to catholic school. Now most are Christian. In many areas the Chinese did not assimilate fully into the larger Indonesian cultural traditions.

                        If you are getting a prenup, I probably would not bring that up with the parents. From my personal point of view. Get a prenup. Work everything out now while you are still in love. All marriages end. They end in one of two ways. Plan for both. Get a will too.

                        BTW Puspawarna, I agree with your points.
                        Last edited by jukung11; 20-02-15, 21:18.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dafluff View Post
                          Plus you have no idea what the woman wants, which I feel should be the most important factor here. Maybe she is traditional and would rather have him ask the parents? Also my understanding for a Chinese traditional proposal, it is the parents of the male asking the parents of the female, hence both parties need their parents approval. And comparing this to having blacks sit in the back of the bus....really?

                          Now for actual advice (coming from someone who married a Christian Indonesian of Chinese descent):

                          I asked her first. Traditional western proposal, with ring and going down on one knee etc. This was done while we were both abroad as well. Then the next time we were in Indonesia we did the traditional thing. Don't remember the details, but it involved wearing red and bringing stuff...maybe google this part...

                          Thanks Dafluff to re-focus the topic! And thanks for experience sharing, it's appreciated!

                          Indeed, what's the gf wants is the most important. I think in general, children of Asian families are not particularly attached to the traditions but they still want to follow them for their parents as a sign of their respect to them...

                          I'm asking advices just because I prefer to show respect to the parents and trying to seek their blessings instead of running away with the girlfriend. I don't think the parents will refuse anyway.. They'll surely be happy that I ask permission first, even if our couple will marry anyway!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by teresamas View Post
                            hello I want to congratulate you on your thought of marriage though I am uncertain what you are asking. is her family Christians as well?? or is there religion different. If they are Christians and I know cause my family is Christians. The tradition to asking for daughter in marriage is the man talking to her father alone with or without the mother it doesn't matter. what matters is that you ask the father for his daughters hand in marriage. and make sure you tell him how well you will treat her and take care of her. the fathers most important thing is how they will live how well he will financially support her. etc... you don't need to buy gifts for the parents but if you met with both parents then take the mother some flowers just a kind thought. and the place you choose whether its at a restaurant or there home just make it peaceful . your gonna be stressed and worried as is. Good luck and congrats
                            Thanks Teresamas for your encouragement and advices !
                            And to reply your question, you actually have the answer in the discussion name : "Asking Christian family (...)" : indeed, her family is Christian.
                            Great idea for the flowers!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by merahputih View Post
                              Her parents worried that you live together (or see each other often) and do intercourse before marriage. They worry you'll leave her broken hearted, or worse, pregnant with your child. Even without those things, they may worry that you will take their daughter away. When her parents are old or sick, it's more difficult for her to come back home, to visit or take care of them.

                              You have a good intention, so asking their blessing to marry their daughter is great. Convince them that you love her. In a restaurant or just in their house, speech or just a private talk, are all fine. Gifts... are ok, but not related to your request to marry their daughter. And I prefer they don't see it as a bribe for them to say yes.
                              I find it sooo sweet that you will surprise her with the little blue box. Cool.

                              There's no particular Indonesian Christian tradition for marriage proposal. Though there is some Chinese tradition for engagement, marriage proposal, and the wedding. I find it complicated (and avoidable in my case :P) I chose not to do it. Anyway, if you like to do it, you can discuss the details with your gf and her fam later after she says yes.

                              There are some procedures you have to follow when you marry in Christian way, depends on the church. Both of you are Christians, so I see no problems here. Wish you the best!
                              I think you just put the best words to describe the situation ! Great encouragement... and advices that I will definitely follow ! Many thanks

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