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Need advice: pre nup + mix marriage in Australia

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  • Need advice: pre nup + mix marriage in Australia

    Dear all, i need advice about having pre nup with separate wealth in Australia and having my wedding held in Australia after that.
    If it's possible and legal to use the draft of pre nup given by my lawer, and then signed in front of notary in Australia, then register in Indonesia later when i come back here? the thing is we are thinking to get marry in Australia. And i read somewhere that the pre nup must be signed in the same country where the wedding will be held.
    Or, is there any Indonesian lawyer in Australia, that working under Indonesian law in Australia...errr i'm not sure i know what i'm asking..
    I've been around to notary here, which most lawyers referred me to their notary to deal with pre nup.. and their answers is always "you both must sign in front of me in Indonesia".....
    "What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right." — Albert Einstein

  • #2
    Right, for the pre-nup to be valid in Indonesia you have to use an Indonesian notaris. Once you find a notaris you can give them the document you want to use and they can then copy and reformat it for Indonesia; and of course translate it if not already in Indonesian.
    "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by jnicek View Post
      ....I've been around to notary here, which most lawyers referred me to their notary to deal with pre nup.. and their answers is always "you both must sign in front of me in Indonesia".....
      The registration will take some time. Also, there is no real mandatory registration. Of course you would/should (try to) register with Catatan Sipil/KUA and/or local court, but sometimes it gets rejected when it's something they are not familiar with. The official 'signing date' in front of the notary is what counts. And that becomes your problem right now. I never saw a notary who took that responsibility and accepted the risk of sending & receiving signed documents; having a mandate / power of attorney is already quite a process in which you also need to show up.

      You never know, but I would find it very odd were an Indonesian notary practicing in Oz...so that would mean an extra return trip.

      A prenup doesn't have to be signed in the country where you marry btw. It almost always has to be in the language of the country where you want it to be valid and signed before (as well as certified by) a notary of that country.
      Last edited by jstar; 09-01-13, 15:25. Reason: prenup location
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      • #4
        Originally posted by jstar View Post

        You never know, but I would find it very odd were an Indonesian notary practicing in Oz...so that would mean an extra return trip.
        Yes, and I'd like to add, that even within the same province, a notary has his/her own jurisdiction of practice and handle cases. For example, a Surabaya notary can not do any case or making any deeds that took place in Sidoarjo, while both cities are neighbors.
        Words can inspire, thoughts can provoke, but only action can get you closer to your dreams.

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        • #5
          So, there is really no other solution except my husband-tobe to come to Indonesia and we both sign in front of the notary here?
          What about signing in front of attested person in Indonesian consulate or Indonesian Embassy in Australia?

          About signing pre nup must be done in the same country where the couple will get married, i read about it somewhere from reliable source, i forgot what it is, i think it's embassy website.

          Having a pre nup signed, we just need it for having a land so it will be able registered under my name (Indonesian).
          So, do you guys think is it acceptable to get it done by Australian lawyer instead Indonesian notary or Indonesian notary/lawyer in Australia? As our marriage certificate will be issued by Australian and it's gonna be accepted by Civil Registry office in Indonesia when i come back here to report it... i guess the pre nup also the same...

          But i was told, the pre nup need to be signed in front of Indonesian notary... that's why i was concerned about getting it done in front of Indonesian notary at the first place when i was post this thread.

          Pls advice. We both have no clue at all. And my bf thinks we may get help from Indonesian consulate or embassy in Australia, which i think their job is just to accept our signed papers, not for making papers legal.

          Btw, we are thinking to get married in March. So, it's not much time left to arrange any trip for him to come here, if it's just for signing in front of the Indo notary here, the cost will be too much... beside, there is something like prenup must be done in the same country where the marriage held clause i read b
          "What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right." — Albert Einstein

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          • #6
            I can only answer one thing for sure for you, Jnicek. That is, every deeds made by notary in Indonesia need to be signed right in front of him/her. He/she needs to make sure that he/she deals with the right person, conform with the ids. Any parties that mentioned in that deed needs to be present and signs on the minuta. The place can be compromised though, either at the notary's office or he/she comes to your place under certain circumstances.
            Words can inspire, thoughts can provoke, but only action can get you closer to your dreams.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Alia View Post
              I can only answer one thing for sure for you, Jnicek. That is, every deeds made by notary in Indonesia need to be signed right in front of him/her. He/she needs to make sure that he/she deals with the right person, conform with the ids. Any parties that mentioned in that deed needs to be present and signs on the minuta. The place can be compromised though, either at the notary's office or he/she comes to your place under certain circumstances.
              Thank you Alia for the information.
              I talked with Wijayaco lawfirm in Jakarta, and they seem can handle the case like i have now. But they charge 2000$, and it seems too much for us.
              "What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right." — Albert Einstein

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              • #8
                You need to get it done in Indonesia- because Indonesian law will only recognise a document made here for this purpose- that is the best of my knowledge.
                It is advised to register the document but not essential.
                We just had a basic pre-nup made it cost us 1.2 juta, it was done in 3 hours and it was not registered anywhere,
                We are buying land now and the notaris dealing with the land purchase asked to see our pre-nup to check that the purchase was complying with the laws.
                It was perfectly acceptable.
                One made outside the country is not going to be accepted I fear... unless someone here knows better and can give you more detailed information than me. x
                Cicak Magnet

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bad_azz View Post
                  It is advised to register the document but not essential.
                  We just had a basic pre-nup made it cost us 1.2 juta, it was done in 3 hours and it was not registered anywhere,
                  We are buying land now and the notaris dealing with the land purchase asked to see our pre-nup to check that the purchase was complying with the laws.
                  It was perfectly acceptable.
                  Do you mean the pre nup? I'm afraid it's not right to not register it at all. Maybe you will be ok to not register it to local court, but you have to submit it with your marriage certificate in the civil registry. Beside, everytime talking to notary, they always implying after being witness when we sign the pre nup, they will have to report it to the local court.
                  "What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right." — Albert Einstein

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                  • #10
                    Well I can only comment on what happened with us - despite numerous attempts to register it with the Catatan Sipil alongside our marriage certificate ... nobody was even interested in looking at the document.
                    They said it was not necessary- so it is not registered.
                    Cicak Magnet

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                    • #11
                      Correct B_A. There are also people who could not have it registered at the local court. Jnicek is too focused on how it should be, not on how it is.

                      You can ask it 100 times but you will get the same answers: Yes, Indonesian notary is mandatory if it's a version for the Indonesian jurisprudence. Yes, the official prenup should be in Bahasa Indonesia (a translated version has no legal validity). Yes, registration is good and preferred but not always possible. Phew *wiping off forehead*

                      And: a law firm is not necessary. And for $2000 you should have two return tickets OZ<->RI, perhaps even in 1st class
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                      • #12
                        I took most of my advice from posts by Marcus and Atlantis in these matters so I have trusted them to be fairly spot-on. If however the goal posts move then that is just how it is- I cannot change what already has happened- however the notaris dealing with our house/land purchase is young and eager to comply with laws, she saw the pre-nup and said it was fine and that our purchase of the land would be legitimate.

                        The notaris we used is in Bandung at the top of Jalan Sarimanah Raya and she is also professional - she charged us 1,2 jt for the basic pre-nup with one notarised copy. Her daughter also works there and she acted as translator.
                        Cicak Magnet

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                        • #13
                          I should probably take it slower *_*
                          But i can't... my flight to Australia is in 8days~!

                          I am pretty sure, Australian lawyer doesn't know tiny bit of Indonesian law. So i should stay focus on doing according to the rule and getting the right pre nup that will be valid in Indonesia.

                          Some Indonesian officers may skip some rules.. but when u meet the officer who are using the right rules... you will fall hard on ur bum.
                          I am an Indonesian myself, i live most of my life here.. i know them. Once or few times you could do things not according to law and passed it successfully without hassless... but the next time you meet another officer (or even the same officer but she/he just changed mood).. and you're required to do according to the rules... then you will have to do it start over again. I find myself very annoyed last year when i renewed my ID card.. i had to meet pak RT and pak RW 2times.. kelurahan 3times..got my ID card issued with wrong kelurahan name 3times... then had to make new KK, just becoz they don't know what is my RT number after the expansion area for RW..

                          So, for this pre nup thing... i need to know and sure about doing it right. We don't want to file a divorce then, do the prenup and then re marry again. Beside, the notary i just met today (the 2nd notary i've asked for making us the draft) said, we are not allowed to marry to the same person twice. And in Australia, the court need proof that the husband and wife have separation at least 12months.

                          Btw, this notary, also not sure if the pre nup we will sign in Australia will be accepted by the court in Indonesia. It's funny, why the marriage certificate issued abroad can be accepted easily in civil court, but not the pre nup?
                          She's not sure, but i still asked her to draw our pre nup. She seems more professional than the first one i met. And more expensive, 1.5jt for the draft. *doh*
                          "What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right." — Albert Einstein

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                          • #14
                            Jnicek... Shop around and get better advice - not from someone who wants to take all your money.

                            The prenup is done in about half a day. I found a few notaris who quoted anything between 3 hours to 3 weeks maybe even a month. Decide for yourself what you want to do.

                            And as far as I am aware you both have to be present to sign it.
                            Cicak Magnet

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                            • #15
                              Yes.. i'm hoping i'm shopping around the right stuff from the right person.
                              I paid 350rb for a standard prenup from a notary who has no experience with mixed marriage. My bf is not satisfied and asked me to get another draft from someone more experience. So, i paid for 1.5jt today. Will get it next week. Hope it's worth it.
                              If there is anyone here willing to share their pre nup draft so we can have some ideas, that would be great.

                              The big problem is that, we are going to do the pre nup and marriage in Australia. I'm afraid the pre nup signed in Australia will be hard to be accepted by the court and civil registry office here. As in Wijaya co's page says, the draft needs to mention using indonesian language as the primary language, and the indonesian law is the law that we will obey... i'm not sure there will be any Australian notary ok with that... or will they? *.*
                              Another thing... if we do sign that kind of pre nup... will it means, the pre nup won't be valid for separate wealth of assets in Australia?
                              "What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right." — Albert Einstein

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