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marriage process: religious ceremony --> PRENUP --> legal marriage - OK?

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  • #16
    Hiram - that is correct all round.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by indobased View Post
      In case we have to, how do we proof that we are indeed "married" based on nikah siri if there are no supporting documents?
      In your case it maybe difficult if it is your father-in-law is conducting the ceremony. But I am not too sure about that. Here is a case when someone I know needed to prove the nikah siri. A friend of mine did the nikah siri first and was given a letter from the imam. Since there was not an official from the KUA present at his ceremony he had to take this letter to a judge and the judge had to make a ruling as to whether the letter was legitimate or not. He then had to take that letter and the judge's recommendation to the KUA and they were issued the buku nikah. So in short you would need a letter from the imam and a court ruling. But the only reason my friend had to do this was because he and his wife had a child and they needed to back date the buku nikah and that was the only solution offered at the KUA.

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      • #18
        Thanks, John Madden. I'm working on it now with pacarku!

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        • #19
          As I understand the regulations get married just in front of a Imam that your wife knows well. This is not recognized by the government but will do for your wife's family. Here in the Jepara area that is what most expats do.

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          • #20
            Appearances trump substance. Religion trumps the law. And then people are surprised when the law means dick here and when religion degenerates into lawlessness. Classic case of rewarding X while hoping for Y. People largely get the government and society they deserve.
            Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 30-11-12, 15:29.

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            • #21
              OK guys, I'm back and happily married now.

              Just want to confirm it was exactly the way you said Hombre.
              We indeed had an Imam and 2 saksi, her father as wali only as it should be. So my previous info on him doing the ceremony as well as being wali was wrong.

              There were many family members present and lots of photos and a video taken. She received the Mas Kawin and we signed our surat pernyataan menikah.
              With all that I am confident we could prove our nikah siri if needed.

              The prenup is in process and KUA marriage will be performed next year.

              Thank you all for your contributions!

              Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
              Your marriage (nikah siri) is proven only by the testimony of the witnesses. The testimony of those witnesses would not be admissible according to Indonesian law. In other words, the legal validity of nikah siri is as strong as the paper it is written on.

              Your proposed method (the father/wali officiates) seems contrary to the procedure established in Islam. The father hands over his guardianship (wali nasab) to the groom. As such he is one party to the contract. He cannot be both the officiating officer and the party to the contract at the same time. I think that's one of the fundamental principles of jurisprudence.

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              • #22
                Indobased.. first.. congratulations on your nikah siri and all the best with the official ceremony next year.

                to be clear, with regard to the prenuptual agreement, i take it that the consensus and conclusion is that the [FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]nikah siri [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]does not preclude you from formulating the prenup anytime before the official ceremony which you plan for next year.. because it is not recognised as a legal marriage.?

                have i got that right.?
                Last edited by ukcouple; 17-12-12, 23:40.

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                • #23
                  U WILL GET A MARRIAGE BOOK OFF THE Iman....u don't really need a prenup...it's cus a westerner can 't own property...but u can still use a trusted nominee...iNDONESIAN LAW IS VERY STUPID BUT THATS CORRUPPTION.

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                  • #24
                    Buku nikah sumai is a regonized legal marriage..kementerian agama .republik Indonesia..cheers.

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                    • #25
                      UKcouple,

                      sorry for my late reply. My settings on receiving email notifications on replies to my comments in a thread were not activated. So I missed your question. You probably figured it out by now ;-) Anyways, yes you are safe to have the nikah siri first without a prenup at hand. prenup really just needs to be issued before the day you get legally married. So whenever you want to have your official ceremony involving KUA, make sure you have the prenup done before that date.




                      Originally posted by ukcouple View Post
                      Indobased.. first.. congratulations on your nikah siri and all the best with the official ceremony next year.

                      to be clear, with regard to the prenuptual agreement, i take it that the consensus and conclusion is that the [FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]nikah siri [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]does not preclude you from formulating the prenup anytime before the official ceremony which you plan for next year.. because it is not recognised as a legal marriage.?

                      have i got that right.?

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