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marriage process: religious ceremony --> PRENUP --> legal marriage - OK?

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  • marriage process: religious ceremony --> PRENUP --> legal marriage - OK?

    Hello there,

    My Indonesian girlfriend and me are planning to get married next year in May. May is our earliest option since that's the only time all my family members and close friends can make it over from Europe.

    Now in order to be able to live under one roof without provoking her family and causing social judgement from pretty every one else, we simply decided to have our religious ceremony well in advance as in next week. :-)

    Am I right to assume that the religious ceremony (muslim) won't have any legal implications so that it is save to have our prenup agreement made after the ceremony, but before the legal marriage next year?

    If you could please just let me know if that's indeed the case or otherwise.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Make the prenup now. The Muslim marrage is legal here. Be very careful or you could be in a bad position later.
    [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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    • #3
      Oops.

      Would you know of any legal reference to that Jim?
      Thanks

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      • #4
        It depends. What do you mean by religious muslim ceremony? Do you mean nikah siri or marriage officiated by Kantor Urusan Agama (KUA)?

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        • #5
          Search a bit on here, I dont know all the legal things, but you need to be very careful because a mistake now will last forever.
          [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

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          • #6
            @Jim: I know Jim, I'm aware of the consequences. To be able to buy property through my wife is something I've been looking forward to. Wouldn't want to loose that benefit.

            @Hombre: I better double check than. Since this is my first and hopefully last marriage this is all new to me. All I know is we will have an Imam come to her house and I am supposed to bring 2 witnesses. Not sure if that involves KUA. The whole purpose is to be considered as married in a religious view so that living together would be accepted.

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            • #7
              If it is officiated by a KUA official and a KUA buku nikah is issued, it is a wedding recognized by the Indonesian state. Definitely get the the prenup before this.

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              • #8
                OK, thats comprehensible. Thanks Hombre. Best to not hurry things then, I'll get the prenup first.

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                • #9
                  It is possible to get the nikah siri done first, then have the prenup done at your leisure before the official legal KUA marriage. A prenup willl not be asked for at a nikah siri. I did it this way

                  That said a prenup can be managed within a couple of days depending upon how long or short you decide to make it. So it should be possible to manage both the nikah siri & the prenup within a week.
                  Only the dead have seen the end of war

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for your input Divineelite!

                    I have just been updated by my fiancé that instead of an imam, her father will simply be the wali holding the ceremony/prayers. So this will indeed be nikah siri only and KUA won't be involved at that point. Therefore we can take our time and have the prenup made with proper consideration once the nikah siri is done.

                    One more thing:

                    In case we have to, how do we proof that we are indeed "married" based on nikah siri if there are no supporting documents?

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                    • #11
                      Your marriage (nikah siri) is proven only by the testimony of the witnesses. The testimony of those witnesses would not be admissible according to Indonesian law. In other words, the legal validity of nikah siri is as strong as the paper it is written on.

                      Your proposed method (the father/wali officiates) seems contrary to the procedure established in Islam. The father hands over his guardianship (wali nasab) to the groom. As such he is one party to the contract. He cannot be both the officiating officer and the party to the contract at the same time. I think that's one of the fundamental principles of jurisprudence.

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                      • #12
                        as i know, nikah siri mean both of you married in islam. however, is not legal in law. why dont you also go to catatan sipil to get your marriage document ? its only one step away.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by indobased View Post
                          Thanks for your input Divineelite!

                          In case we have to, how do we proof that we are indeed "married" based on nikah siri if there are no supporting documents?
                          That kinda depends on who's asking. Even though legally invalid, nikah siri has a high social acceptance here. So if you're worried about nosy neighbours wondering who's the new mixed couple living next door, then it's good to have lots of pics & possibly a video as proof. Even better if you invite them to the ceremony. As far as the Indonesian government is concerned or any other official entity for that matter, your wife is as good as your girlfriend :P
                          Only the dead have seen the end of war

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by indobased View Post
                            Hello there,

                            My Indonesian girlfriend and me are planning to get married next year in May. May is our earliest option since that's the only time all my family members and close friends can make it over from Europe.

                            Now in order to be able to live under one roof without provoking her family and causing social judgement from pretty every one else, we simply decided to have our religious ceremony well in advance as in next week. :-)

                            Am I right to assume that the religious ceremony (muslim) won't have any legal implications so that it is save to have our prenup agreement made after the ceremony, but before the legal marriage next year?

                            If you could please just let me know if that's indeed the case or otherwise.

                            Thanks!
                            I think this way is fine. I know a few people who have done this for a number of different reasons. One issue though could be where you will live after you do the non-legal religious ceremony. For example, if you live in the U.S., the state you live in could have common law marraige rules so if you hold yourself out as married, which is your intent, in that state's eyes you can become legally married. Although this may not effect the timing of the Indonesian pre-nup/land buying issue, it could have some other consequences.
                            "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine.

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                            • #15
                              This whole nika siri things sounds pretty good. I'm in the same situation as the thread starter and this seems to be a way that my future wife can already live with me without social condemnation in the time leading up to the official wedding with KUA etc.

                              However, am I right to assume that the nika siri presupposes that both parties are of Muslim faith? Hence, I would have to convert first, then do the nika siri thing, then get all the legal stuff in order and then finally hold the formal wedding. Correct?

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