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  • 8000 Wp solar PV system - overstock

    So we have an overstock of materials for an 8000 solar PV system that includes:
    - 40 x 205 Wp solar panels (Evergreen brand)
    - 1 x SMA Sunny Mini Central 8000 inverter (single phase)
    - Roof mounting system for roof tiles
    - DC disconnect
    - Solar PV array combiner box
    - Surge protector

    Normal price for this kit is usually Rp 180 juta (we have other kits that are cheaper using less well known, but still good quality solar panels). Since it's an overstock, ie a customer cancelled his order because of the damage in a recent flood in Kemang, I want to offer this system (without labor and installation materials such as cabling, conduits, additional junction boxes, etc) at a discount. How does Rp 165 juta sound? We'll work out a deal on the labor and installation materials after we survey your house.

    An 8kW system should produce an annual average of 30kWh/day. Over a 20 year lifetime it should produce about 219,000kWh. So amortized cost of electricity per kWh for the next 20 years (if I estimate additional labor costs, material costs and a one time replacement of the inverters though it may not be needed) is about Rp 1000/kWh flat. This is less than the non subsidized price per kWh from PLN at the moment (and we know it'll keep going up).

    Anyway, needless to say this is valid for Jakarta and surrounding areas, doesn't include VAT or other taxes. Let me know if you're interested.

    Oh, also, if you have a business (I'm not sure if it applies to personal finance), there are a few more advantages:
    - you should be able to reclaim the VAT on your sales
    - there is a 10 year accelerated depreciation schedule
    - a tax break of 5%/year of the cap-ex for the first 6 years.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    You and the rest of the World from I've read rabbit ... apparently sales have slumped so badly the Chinese manufacturer is in trouble...

    "So what happened? The reality of global economics, it seems, got in the way. Low-cost manufacturing has slashed prices so fast that some suppliers simply can't make product at a profit..."

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20...lar-flame-out/

    I'm not suggesting this is why you in particular are selling off extra stock ... just making a general comment upon the issue.
    IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

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    • #3
      Actually we don't normally keep much stock. We buy just enough for a project plus perhaps a few extras. This one set comes from a customer that cancelled their order. Their house got flooded, and wanted to use the money for repairs rather than solar panels as originally planned.

      *this is only 1 set, and specifically as above*

      Speaking of the world PV market, yes a lot of panels are being sold at cost or below cost. That's actually why we're currently developing IPP (Independent Power Producer) projects for solar PV. The cost of the panels are low and therefore great investments. The best bang for the back for the customer is if they're still using diesel generators. We can supplement with solar PV energy to reduce the overall cost per kWh.

      IF the customer buys the system, the Internal Rate of Return on their investment can be as high as 30-45% when compared with diesel gensets. This is based solely on avoided costs and tax breaks/accelerated depreciation that I know they can get for sure.

      Thanks!

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      • #4
        We need to all embrace renewable energy.
        Things happen for a reason...

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        • #5
          Michelle: Luckily right now, it's not just about embracing renewable energy. But embracing renewable energy is also saving money and financially beneficial long term strategy (in many cases). For commercial and industrial clients, we are usually able to provide a solution that makes financial sense.

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          • #6
            Sadly, there's no incentive for households in Indonesia to put solar energy system in place as there is no buy-back scheme. I'd love to put one in for my house but the initial investment is way too high with no/extremely long ROI. Though being able to be independent of PLN would be an incentive in itself, lol.

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            • #7
              Yes, for homes, with PLN prices at Rp 1380/kWh the IRR over 20 years is only about 10%-ish.

              The benefit for homes is that it will save you money by reducing the kWh taken from PLN when you're using it during the day. If you're using 30kWh of electricity from 8am to 5pm, your avoided cost right now is 30kWh x Rp 1380 = Rp 41,400/day. Or about Rp 15 juta per year. So it will take you about 12 years if you are using a simple payback (and not accounting for the PLN price increases. The shortest reasonable payback period if you account for 5% average PLN increase is 8 years, I think.

              Lifetime of the system is 25+ years with possible replacement of the inverter every 10-15 years (about 10% of the project cost for 1 replacement).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tokek View Post
                Sadly, there's no incentive for households in Indonesia to put solar energy system in place as there is no buy-back scheme. I'd love to put one in for my house but the initial investment is way too high with no/extremely long ROI. Though being able to be independent of PLN would be an incentive in itself, lol.

                It's certainly worth it in my home town where after privatisation of the electric supply, by a conservative Government , prices have risen close to 100% in just 5 years!
                Interestingly a spokesman for one of the energy suppliers was quoted today as saying that a side effect of the boom in take up rates over Australia will result in further price increases for those without because of a 'fall in demand '... work that out!
                I would install them in an instant if not for the bloody great trees over shadowing my house from next door ...
                IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

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                • #9
                  Rabbit,

                  I'm interested in how the 8KW output works. Is that 8KW per hour, if in a very sunny climate? You indicate 30 kwh per day. So on an average day with 12 hours of light, it's producing 37.5% of its potential?
                  Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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                  • #10
                    So here's how a solar panel works in a few paragraphs.

                    Each solar panel is rated in Watt-peak. This is the power produced by the solar panels under a standardized "peak sunlight intensity", and that's defined as 1000 Watt/m^2. So when the light is that bright, one solar panel can produce power up to (within tolerance) the rated watt-peak. Peak sunlight intensity can only be achieved basically for about 1 hour per day. From sunrise to noon, the light intensity is always going up, and from noon to sun down the light intensity is always going down.

                    So 8000 watt-peak solar panels can only produce 8000 watts per hour during the peak hour of "noon". so that's 8kWh. From 7am to 11am, it should get around 8kWh total with increasing amount as it gets closer to 11am. From 1pm to 6pm, it should get around 8kwh again.

                    And yes, that's the one disadvantage of solar PV systems is that it is only producing electricity when there's light.

                    Hope that makes sense.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
                      So here's how a solar panel works in a few paragraphs.

                      Each solar panel is rated in Watt-peak. This is the power produced by the solar panels under a standardized "peak sunlight intensity", and that's defined as 1000 Watt/m^2. So when the light is that bright, one solar panel can produce power up to (within tolerance) the rated watt-peak. Peak sunlight intensity can only be achieved basically for about 1 hour per day. From sunrise to noon, the light intensity is always going up, and from noon to sun down the light intensity is always going down.

                      So 8000 watt-peak solar panels can only produce 8000 watts per hour during the peak hour of "noon". so that's 8kWh. From 7am to 11am, it should get around 8kWh total with increasing amount as it gets closer to 11am. From 1pm to 6pm, it should get around 8kwh again.

                      And yes, that's the one disadvantage of solar PV systems is that it is only producing electricity when there's light.

                      Hope that makes sense.
                      I assume that it also depends on cloud cover, rain and the like. I live in Arizona as well, and have seen all sorts of setups, there. Including ones that track the sun.
                      Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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                      • #12
                        Yes it depends on the weather for cloud coverage and rain. On a day when there is no cloud cover and no rain whatsoever, an 8kWp system can produce close to around 40kWh in Jakarta. But as a yearly average, it's closer to 30 something kWh per day.

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                        • #13
                          Just wonder how big the house was, for which it was originally meant? Seems a bit overkill for a single domestic solution? Would love a similar system but the IRR & payback make it just not worth it; and my 'environmentfriendlyness' doesn't go that far.
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                          • #14
                            This wasn't the biggest residential system we've installed. There was one at Pondok Indah valued at over $100,000 because of the 2000Ah/48V-96kWh battery bank. And another in Kelapa Gading at 24kWp installed. Neither houses are terribly large, not mansion sizes but larger than any house I would likely own in the future. 4 stories, 3-4 car garages, swimming pools.

                            A small house can consume 18kWh/day during the day pretty easily:
                            2 x 1PK A/C x 8 hours = 8kWh
                            1 x 400W refrigerator x 8 hours x 50% compressor cycle = 1.6kWh
                            1 x computer and monitor 400W x 8 hours = 3.2kWh
                            1 x misc chargers 150W x 4 hours = 0.6kWh
                            1 x toasters, microwave, rice cooker, iron etc = .6 kWh
                            1 x big screen flat TV 500W x 8 hours = 4kWh

                            But yes, for a residential system it's not a huge return on the investment. It will reach 15% IRR or more only if PLN continues increases its price drastically (like the 15% this year) every 2-3 years like they've been doing in the last decade.

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                            • #15
                              Okay. So what would the initial investment and TCO be for a reliable system that delivers 20kWh per day? And how easy/difficult is it to upgrade after some years?
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