Bogor church runs services on the street after closure

[TheJakartaPostBot]

Local administrations in the country often opt to bow to pressure from anti-pluralism groups at the expense of legal certainty when it comes to church building permits.

read more (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/04/13/bogor-church-runs-services-street-after-closure.html)



More... (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/04/13/bogor-church-runs-services-street-after-closure.html)

[ajwolfgang]

A religion discriminating against another religion... Wow. Disgusting, but nothing new. Shame on these people who think they have the right to disrupt other people just because they have different views. Also, shame on the government/courts/members of the community who ALLOW intolerance like this to take place. This is another representation of how that community is viewed in the world.

[gffgold]

Some prat writing in the opinion section of the Jak Post website was moaning on about all the mosques that are refused permits in Bali, Papua and NTT... Wot? I can't remember hearing of such cases and I read both the English and Indonesian media. Have I missed something?

[haryadi]

Never heard or read about those cases .
But it's possible for the sake of religious harmony , local government could refuse to issue such permits.
After all,the area you mentioned is not dominated by moslem.

Although another possibility , that the writer in Jakarta Post just made up the story .


Anyway , slightly related ,just read this interesting article from detik.com

http://us.surabaya.detik.com/read/2010/04/16/115756/1339581/475/takut-jadi-sarang-teroris-pembangunan-masjid-diprotes-warga

Some people from Solo(Central Java) try to build a mosque in Madura island (East Java) without local people permission .
So the local Madura people in that area reject the mosque construction , fear that they would use that mosque for terrorism activity.

[Nimbus]

This is another case where weak rule of law goes against minorities. Local residents going against establishment of a house of worship that's not their own is neither novel nor unique to Indonesia. There are many cases where local residents in USA oppose the building of mosques. The difference being in USA as long as the Mosque building permit seeker has satisfied all the codes and regulations, the local gov't typically has no choice but to grant the permit. As long as the permit is valid, the local police force will automatically protect the right to exercise it.

[waarmstrong]

Some prat writing in the opinion section of the Jak Post website was moaning on about all the mosques that are refused permits in Bali, Papua and NTT... Wot? I can't remember hearing of such cases and I read both the English and Indonesian media. Have I missed something?

I suspect that Haryadi is close to the mark. I read the same letter to the editor and it sounded like the writer picked a couple of non-Muslim regions as reference points and made up examples assuming these others have the same belligerent, myopic attitude as the Bogor majority. As a defense of the Muslim actions, the letter was weak in deed.

[gffgold]

In the case of Bali there are quite a few mosques in the major towns as well as whole villages that are Muslim. The area around Candi Kuning has been home to Muslims from Lombok for a very long time. In Sulut the situation is similar and indeed in Manado I was surprised just how many mosques had been built. I have never been to Papua so I can't comment. I'm sure there are cases where permits have been refused for mosque construction but I have never heard of a single instance like the case of the church in Bogor where a mosque permit has been withdrawn on the flimsiest of pretexts, . Were it to have happened anywhere I'm sure a number of very vocal Muslim groups would have given the issue maximum publicity.

[atlantis]

In Sulut the situation is similar and indeed in Manado I was surprised just how many mosques had been built. I have never been to Papua so I can't comment. I'm sure there are cases where permits have been refused for mosque construction but I have never heard of a single instance like the case of the church in Bogor where a mosque permit has been
SulUt, as often and not surprisingly, is a good example of tolerance. Even in the numerous kecamatan where muslim are in minorities, permits to build masjid are granted, even if the muslim families are to be counted on both hands. 99% of my district is christian (protestant, catholic, advent and pentecotist for the most) but we also have a masjid. Not a busy one, even if the sound system may (wrongly) lead to believe that it is an important one.

[indotom]

The case of being refused the building permit may just be the officials wanting money.

Yes imagine that, a bribe to do their jobs. Is that corruption, well it depends who you ask. If you ask them, they would just tell you how little money they earn as a government employee and then reference their 4 kids, 3 homes, 2 wives, Mercedes SUV and education expense of sending their eldest son to America to learn western laws and values. ;)

[gffgold]

Today I annoyed our religious education teachers by suggesting an alternative practical exam (Ujian Praktek) for their subject. "First", I said, "give the Christian students some buckets and spades and send them out to the sandpit to try to build a church out of sand"
"Er, OK", replied the head of subject nervously. "And then what?"
"Then the Muslim students have to try to stop them".

I had to beat a swift retreat from the staff room.

[b_santoso]

I believe it's not really anti-pluralism issue as written by the JP. So far Bogor has been a tolerant religious city. According what I heard, actually the issue is in the permit request process instead of anti-pluralism.

[kingwilly]

of course it has,

why then were the sellers of pork targeted ?

[gffgold]

Not to mention a Catholic church in Parung district being harassed, the BPK Penabur resort being destroyed by persons shouting 'Allahu akbar', and the rather insiduous 'halal city' campaign by the PKS-backed mayor. How much more intolerance do you need?

[waarmstrong]

Example after example suggests that the permit process is a red herring and a euphemistic vehicle for persecuting those on a path not taken my the sanctimonious majority.

[Gratilla]

Has anyone asked - or even better actually found out how many mesjids are properly permitted?

A good few years ago there was a bit of a broo harr harr with respect to a mosque to be built on land set aside for recreational purposes on a residential estate in Bekasi. Childrens' swings and slides were taken down and the building started against protests of local residents. The (muslim) RW resigned (or was fired) for making issue.

An alleged irony is that the main sponsor (a Chinese descent Indonesian convert) had it moved from public land set aside for the purpose in front of his own rather large house.

[b_santoso]

The issues of masjid/church building permits are all parties's responsible (i.e. Ministry of Religion, domestic Affairs, Justice and civil society). A solution has been released as stated by the following phrases :
- According to a 2006 joint ministerial decree, a new house of worship must have the support of at least 90 congregation members and 60 local residents of different faiths.
- It also has to obtain a recommendation letter from the Religious Affairs Office and the government-sponsored Regional Interfaith Communication Forum (FKUB) before gaining final approval from the local administration.
As long as those phrases are satisfied, there shouldn't be any issue. However if it occured, I think case by case solution should be taken into account with clear, fair, wise, peaceful ways because different condition. I believe everything can be solved by talk instead of violence.
One of some issues is raised by new housing complex developers when they promise (for marketing purpose) that in or around the housing complex will built a church/masjid neglecting that it must follow available requisites.

[gffgold]

As long as those phrases are satisfied, there shouldn't be any issue. However if it occured, I think case by case solution should be taken into account with clear, fair, wise, peaceful ways because different condition. I believe everything can be solved by talk instead of violence.

I'm sure we would all agree with you. Unfortunately, a certain proportion of the Muslim population in Bogor doesn't see things in such a reasonable way. It must also be remembered that the church in question did have a construction permit and the congregation had gone through the proper process but following 'protests' from a vocal and potentially violent mob of local Muslims the Bogor administration revoked the permit.

[waarmstrong]

The issues of masjid/church building permits are all parties's responsible (i.e. Ministry of Religion, domestic Affairs, Justice and civil society)...

I am familiar with the drill. The process itself is part of the problem. It was made by the majority religion, as a vehicle to be employed by said majority to persecute minority religions. The whole procedure reeks of intolerant self-serving hypocrisy.

[Nimbus]

To my understanding, the process was designed to reduce or eliminate friction. It is skewed toward the majority to make sure they're placated enough to not riot. If we get rid of the process, you run more risk of stuff getting destroyed by a local posse. People like to point out the bad cases, but do we know how many churches were successfully built due to the process?

I guess we can always try a fully equitable process and see if it works, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

[waarmstrong]

... the process was designed to reduce or eliminate friction...

I agree with you on this one, Injun, but I would couch it in different terms. Rather emphasizing "reduce," and "friction," I would describe the process as a placation of a potentially violent majority. The law, and the actual use of or threatened use of violence, if the law fails to prevent construction, is in place to keep a Muslim foot on the neck of minority religions.