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Hi,
This will probably seem like a silly question to most of you guys, but does anyone know what the water quality is like in Batam. I can find very little information on it and when I do it contradicts itself. Some happy to drink it others say no way!:confused
Also does anyone know if the water is soft or hard? If I remember rightly the water in Singapore is soft water. Hard water has a much higher level of minerals in it.
I only ask as it (hard water( can aggravate my ezcema quite badly so best to be prepared!!:)
Thanks in advance
Lx
Hi,
This will probably seem like a silly question to most of you guys, but does anyone know what the water quality is like in Batam. I can find very little information on it and when I do it contradicts itself. Some happy to drink it others say no way!:confused
Also does anyone know if the water is soft or hard? If I remember rightly the water in Singapore is soft water. Hard water has a much higher level of minerals in it.
I only ask as it (hard water( can aggravate my ezcema quite badly so best to be prepared!!:)
Thanks in advance
Lx
Most, if not all expats and many locals drink bottled water as there is no such thing as a clean water supply, many locals will also drink boiled water which does have a high mineral content. High end filters are available for purchase...
Thank Omdafyd! :)
Your welcome... {sama sama in Bahasa Indonesia}
and selamat datang di forum...:welcome:
from a fellow Scotsman originally...:yo:
Most, if not all expats and many locals drink bottled water as there is no such thing as a clean water supply, many locals will also drink boiled water which does have a high mineral content. High end filters are available for purchase...
No way would I drink the water regardless of any filtering system. You buy a water dispenser and 'aqua gallon'. That's the water you may well have seen in offices and shops in the UK.
ADDED - Costs about 75p to refill and lasts ay least a week for most people.
Agree that you are better to drink bottled water, but have used tap water for making tea and have not had any problems
No way would I drink the water regardless of any filtering system. You buy a water dispenser and 'aqua gallon'. That's the water you may well have seen in offices and shops in the UK.
ADDED - Costs about 75p to refill and lasts ay least a week for most people.
The aqua gallon you speak of was on tv recently for having caught their workers washing their dirty hands with it as its being put into delivery trucks. It was also mentioned that its merely water from pam thats been filtered.
So i dont see why you cant just get your own high end (reverse osmosis) filter and just filter it yourself. Well besides the initial cost of course. Hek, i would even use it with well water.
The aqua gallon you speak of was on tv recently for having caught their workers washing their dirty hands with it as its being put into delivery trucks. It was also mentioned that its merely water from pam thats been filtered.
So i dont see why you cant just get your own high end (reverse osmosis) filter and just filter it yourself. Well besides the initial cost of course. Hek, i would even use it with well water.
Spit, spit, spit.
I have just had a glass before I clicked on the thread.
The aqua gallon you speak of was on tv recently for having caught their workers washing their dirty hands with it as its being put into delivery trucks.It was also mentioned that its merely water from pam thats been filtered.
So i dont see why you cant just get your own high end (reverse osmosis) filter and just filter it yourself. Well besides the initial cost of course. Hek, i would even use it with well water.
Beebop, you must mean before the bottles are sealed and not being put onto the trucks as they are already sealed at that point aren't they...
As far as it being simply filtered water, anything is possible here in Indonesia tho' I imagine the outcry and subsequent bad publicity would be a disastor for the company if that could be proven.
A note on well water, where do you think all the underground water is replenished from, and what contaminants are routinely flushed into there after the hujan...:whistle:
Another concern on water
My local husband ( Indonesian ) advise that I shouldn't even be washing vegetable,fruit or even rice with tap water. I have to use aqua for everything???!!
Can the water be that bad???
Another concern on water
My local husband ( Indonesian ) advise that I shouldn't even be washing vegetable,fruit or even rice with tap water. I have to use aqua for everything???!!
Can the water be that bad???
It depends on where you are, but if using tap water for drinking, tea/coffee and washing teeth etc at least 5 mins of boiling is wise.
Most Indonesians wouldn't boil the water before using it for cooking...
live in kelapa gading.
no tap water for anything except brushing teeth n shower :S
why does it depend on where we live? is there a difference between areas or your question was for living outside jkt?
so is it safe to use tap water for washing fruits & vegies?
live in kelapa gading.
no tap water for anything except brushing teeth n shower :S
why does it depend on where we live? is there a difference between areas or your question was for living outside jkt?
so is it safe to use tap water for washing fruits & vegies?
I have recommended to my partner that she doesn't wash fruit n vegies with tap water and ours is piped in from the Gov...
Many people in Indonesia are reliant on well water and with the crap, literally and metaphorically that flows into the underground water system, especially Jakarta, I wouldn't personally take any chances...use bottled water!
ohhh now I know what my husband means when he says the water comes from deep underground....eeewwww thinking twice about shower now!
Yes , tap water is not good for drink . I also brush my teeth with bottled water . But for cooking or washing before cooking , I use tap water . According the US Environmental Protection Agency (www.epa.gov) you can kill most of the bacterias by boiling the water for just 1 minute at sea level , or 3 minutes for altitudes above one mile .
Yes , tap water is not good for drink . I also brush my teeth with bottled water . But for cooking or washing before cooking , I use tap water . According the US Environmental Protection Agency (www.epa.gov (http://www.epa.gov)) you can kill most of the bacterias by boiling the water for just 1 minute at sea level , or 3 minutes for altitudes above one mile .
Can you carry a cooker and LPG bottle up Everest? :)
Can you carry a cooker and LPG bottle up Everest? :)
No Fred LPG doesn't work at such high cold altitudes, they use gasoline/petrol.:smile2:
Our local tap water isn't too bad at all (mid Bali). I use it for tea frequently, and boiling type cooking.. I drink tap water around here quite often too...Never been sick for a minute from it. but I do take colloidal silver regularly and put it in water if I'm in doubt of bacterial problems as the water's often stored in tanks above houses to build up pressure. It won't help high mineral content though. I rarely buy those nasty little bottles of water but have a refillable supply of reverse osmosis filtered water delivered once a week.
how can I find out where our water is coming from...if it's gov pipe or just the normal stuff?
i'm using a reverse osmosis water filtration system for my drinking water needs... no need to worry about ordering bottled drinking water...
how can I find out where our water is coming from...if it's gov pipe or just the normal stuff?
Look at the colour.
i'm using a reverse osmosis water filtration system for my drinking water needs... no need to worry about ordering bottled drinking water...
Very nice:smile2:, could you tell us how it operates please?
Can you carry a cooker and LPG bottle up Everest? :)
I really don't know how many cities are near one mile altitude , but I just checked again and it is what is written there (www.epa.gov/ogwdw/faq/emerg.html) . Maybe the writer meant one should make a proportional scale : 1 minute at sea level (sea level is not written , I assumed) , up to 3 min. at 1 mile . For example , at 1/2 of mile altitude , boil for 2 minutes .
ok so it is difntly a gov pipe...I've figured that out ;)
The time and altitude argument imo is moot.
Water boils at 100deg Celsius at sea level. At altitude, as the pressure is reduced, water boils at a lower temperature and therefore NEVER reaches 100deg C.
Whether all pathogens are killed at 100deg C or because the water is in a state of change to steam, I do not know the answer.
I do know that it takes considerably longer to cook by boiling in water at altitude and that's why tea, on an aircraft, tastes bad...because the water did not reach 100deg C and therefore was not hot enough to mash the tea.
Tea drinking David
Wow. And I thought it was just because they used crappy tea bags.
Meanwhile, how does reverse osmosis work? My advanced internet search skills (Google) led to:
http://www.google.co.id/search?q=reverse+osmosis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
I dont think so...
there are most of indonesian clean every thing with tap water.. the population grows faster than tap water drops...
just secreet advise from my beloved late mum that... do not worry about every things... if you worry.. it will happen...:happy:
Another concern on water
My local husband ( Indonesian ) advise that I shouldn't even be washing vegetable,fruit or even rice with tap water. I have to use aqua for everything???!!
Can the water be that bad???
Hi...that depends on your definition of "bad". The water here is high in minerals and chlorine. But this can be resolved by installing filtration system at your house. For drinking and cooking, you can install a reverse osmosis filtration, which is pretty affordable nowadays at about Rp 5 million. For shower, you can install a basic or more advanced filtration system that provides bacteria-free water. I used 2 filtration systems at home. Both are from Yuki Water Treatment. I don't buy bottled water anymore because it's very inconvenient and costly in the long run.
Water ! After all the filtration and everything you can do to self- process your water supply, Dose anyone check ph ? Acid - Alkali , Must be neutral
7.0 , The effect on living cell mitochondria , or the intricate quality of a cup of tea, When testing for prostate cancer the primary test, checking for alkali phosphate levels in the blood stream, if its high, secondary and tertiary testing is done to determine the presents of tumor , or has anyone ever observed the fish in lakes with variations in ph ,(example, acid lakes in New England) the amount of cancerous growth on them ? I believe ph to be very important to good health and viable water supply, especially the young one among us
Hombre de Maiz
28-03-10, 21:21
...but the acids in our stomach as a whole lot stronger than any really acid water or potent enough to neutralize the alkaline sauce, ainīt they? Fish exposure is cutaneous for the duration of the their lifetime, while we are exposed cutaneously to water, what?, maybe 10 minutes per day?
I always used tap water to brush my teeth and shower. My friends sometime come to Indonesia with me and we stayed at privately own accommodations and we used tap water, everything was fine. I heard Mexico is also bad but when I went there I still brush my teeth with tap water and nothing happened. I think if you're too hygienic you're more prone to diseases.
...but the acids in our stomach as a whole lot stronger than any really acid water or potent enough to neutralize the alkaline sauce, ainīt they? Fish exposure is cutaneous for the duration of the their lifetime, while we are exposed cutaneously to water, what?, maybe 10 minutes per day?
I think at this point the best thing to do is test the ph in you ,wife and child and see where you are, ( urine or Saliva) litmus paper is fine. If in fact it is alkali or acid then locate the source of imbalance and fix, can't imagine any reason not to ?
I feel we are 96 to 98 % water and carbon based, and the water on the planet sets the ph in all of us any variation from this is troublesome health wise, min exposure not withstanding. Right now I am slightly acid and can't figure where it coming from, I suspect environmental. If the digestive acid was to enter your blood stream thru osmosis in the large intestine you would be in trouble but the osmotic membrane won't allow this, And i don't know at what speed these variations can occur ( Lifetime or ten min. )I suspect and this is puffery very quickly, also if you ate something high in alkali and it offset the digestive value of stomach acid, digestion would stop. Much in the same way two glasses of water with dinner sufficiently dilute the acid and stop digestion .
Eh? Unless the pH of what you are drinking is so high or so low as to be distasteful or irritating it really doesn't matter. And what on earth has neutral pH got to do with mitochondria?? I have just drunk a bottle of soursop juice which has a pH of approximately 5.5. The es jeruk nipis I had earlier was probably also acidic, while the milk on my breakfast cereal was fairly basic. I don't expect to drop down dead any time soon. Plants and aquatic life are sensitive to environmental pH but it is entirely wrong to draw the conclusion that humans (or any other mammals) are similarly sensitive to the pH of what they drink.
I suggest you take a course in biology.
Bali_Freak
01-04-10, 21:38
i'm using a reverse osmosis water filtration system for my drinking water needs.
I used to use that too, until one day I put some in a bottle to take with me in the car. I forgot about it, so left it in the car, and noticed sometime later it had turned green. Not slightly tinged with green, I mean very clearly green.
Yuk.
Since then I fork out the few extra Rp. to get Aqua gallon.
I used to use that too, until one day I put some in a bottle to take with me in the car. I forgot about it, so left it in the car, and noticed sometime later it had turned green. Not slightly tinged with green, I mean very clearly green.
Yuk.
Since then I fork out the few extra Rp. to get Aqua gallon.
With respect Bali-freak
You must have something wrong with your equipment.
Reverse Osmosis is internationally recognised as the best way to treat water. It is used on cruise ships and pleasure craft to make fresh water out of salt water. Therefore, to just filtrate slightly toxic fresh to clean fresh is actually easier. Also, there are many different types of machines, using the reverse osmosis principle, so one has to be definitative.
David
waarmstrong
01-04-10, 22:45
Perhaps Mr. Freak was using a Chinese knock off designed primarily to filter money from the pockets of trusting buyers.
Perhaps Mr. Freak was using a Chinese knock off designed primarily to filter money from the pockets of trusting buyers.
Waarm...you have just triggered my memory...there is such a Chinese Compnay but I believe it "maintains" reverse osmosis equipment.
It is called 'Sisomso Esrever' :laugh:....but I seem to remember they were supposed to reverse clean the filters, when they became dirty...perhaps lack of communication?
Or maybe it's all about which way is up....called Murphy's law (assuming Mr. Murphy was Irish)..... seeing as Bali-Freak saw GREEN water.
David
A properly maintained RO unit should remove most molecules and all viruses and bacteria. The output can be used in car batteries.
Actually, drinking water seems to have become the new target for charlatans and quacks who now market all manner of expensive and wholly unecessary products. These include oxygenated water - which should be good for washing down your antioxidant vitamin pills - 'hexagonal' water, which is about as plausible as a moon of green cheese, and water that has allegedly been bathed in sunlight shone through various crystals and which is claimed to cure just about every ill. I suppose the genius of these latter-day snake oils is that, being water, the products are entirely harmless so nobody is going to sue over side-effects. The ancient art of extracting money from those who have more of it than sense.
Bali_Freak
04-04-10, 14:45
I may be mistaken.
I didn't treat the water myself; rather bought it from one of the many small water purification centres here in Bali. These are small street-side 'warungs' which consist of a shiny glass and metal case containing some shiny scientific-looking pipes, tank and filter. The water is sold in gallon-containers, as per Aqua.
Is this RO? If not, what?
I may be mistaken.
I didn't treat the water myself; rather bought it from one of the many small water purification centres here in Bali. These are small street-side 'warungs' which consist of a shiny glass and metal case containing some shiny scientific-looking pipes, tank and filter. The water is sold in gallon-containers, as per Aqua.
Is this RO? If not, what?
If it doesn't hook up to electrical power it is not reverse osmosis.
This link shows numerous RO units for domestic purposes varying from 35-75 gallons/day performance.
http://www.yourwaterneeds.com/DW_US_Reverse_Osmosis.asp
I don't know how Aqua is produced...I thought it was an industrial RO.
To RO fresh water from the sea uses a lot of energy.
From a river or stream may be cheaper.
Anyone else know?
David
Aqua uses "spring water" and ozone.
The refill warungs generally use PAM (ie tap) water and UV.
waarmstrong
04-04-10, 22:10
Refresh my memory, Grats. What's UV?
UltraViolet (radiation). Both Ozone (O3) and UV disinfect water, Ozone being regarded as more effective.
Edit: Some years back Aqua got a "bad rap" <prolly from competitors or ignorant "do-gooders"> saying that ozone is dangerous. Actually, this is true and it is the strongly oxidizing quality of ozone that makes it so effective. However, ozone is unstable and breaks down very quickly to harmless oxygen (O2) - so there's almost certainly next to zero ozone in their product before it even gets out of their door. <more than you wanted to know. OK, so I'll shurrup. <g>>
Note that UV does not remove plant nutrients from PAM water so any drinking water obtained that way just needs the odd algae spore to produce a lovely green hue.
" lovely green hue."
Gff, My water is spring feed from the mountain next to my property, I use twin five micron filters and a UV system, would that be safe for removal of plant nutrients ? and I noticed a blue hue on the shower occasionally
Filtration cannot remove plant nutrients in solution like phosphates and nitrates but showering in the stuff is perfectly OK. I'd be reluctant to drink it without further testing and that goes for all spring water sources.
The bit about pH and cells that I disagreed with was the assumption that you could change the internal pH of body cells or tissue fluids simply by changing the pH of drinking water. I am not a physician but I am a biologist and I'd suggest that abnormalities in blood pH, for example, are the result of potentially serious illness or poisoning and are not caused by changes in drinking water. Excess alkalinity (OH- ions) in drinking water will be mopped up by stomach acids very swiftly. Excess acidity (H+ ions) will simply cause the salivary glands to compensate. The internal environment of body tissues is tightly regulated by homeostatic processes which are resilient to fluctuations in diet and fluid intake. Remember that there are huge differences in pH in different parts of the digestive tract. Saliva is slightly alkaline, stomach contents are strongly acidic, while the small intestine is alkaline. You would have to drink dangerously strong acids or alkalis to make any difference.
Thanks !!!
I can see I should do more listening and less talking concerning biology Rick
Filtration cannot remove plant nutrients in solution like phosphates and nitrates but showering in the stuff is perfectly OK. I'd be reluctant to drink it without further testing and that goes for all spring water sources.
The bit about pH and cells that I disagreed with was the assumption that you could change the internal pH of body cells or tissue fluids simply by changing the pH of drinking water. I am not a physician but I am a biologist and I'd suggest that abnormalities in blood pH, for example, are the result of potentially serious illness or poisoning and are not caused by changes in drinking water. Excess alkalinity (OH- ions) in drinking water will be mopped up by stomach acids very swiftly. Excess acidity (H+ ions) will simply cause the salivary glands to compensate. The internal environment of body tissues is tightly regulated by homeostatic processes which are resilient to fluctuations in diet and fluid intake. Remember that there are huge differences in pH in different parts of the digestive tract. Saliva is slightly alkaline, stomach contents are strongly acidic, while the small intestine is alkaline. You would have to drink dangerously strong acids or alkalis to make any difference.
Yes exactly! Another thing that I found ridiculous is one article I read in an Indonesian magazine that one doctor explained that drinking Oxygenated Water will cause a rust in your body because your blood contains Iron ( Fe) and plus Oxygen (O2) = Fe2 O3 which is rust! Its ridiculous!.. Your body will process any food intake and water intake into the simpliest form of sugar and lipids before it absorbs it and it doesnt affects your blood Oxygen level since Oxygen carried by your blood is acquired from the lungs .. I am even confused how can you add another molecule of Oxygen to water? H2O2= this chemical composition is not water anymore..
H2O2 exists - it is hydrogen peroxide, and you certainly wouldn't want to drink that stuff. The oxygenated water contains oxygen gas under pressure much like soda contains CO2. The bubbles appear as the gas comes out of solution. Quite useless, but also harmless.
Agreed. If you have greenish stuffs in your RO water, most likely your RO membrane has a tear, allowing minerals to go through. You can simply replace the membrane and keep using. RO water is by far healthier than Aqua galon because Aqua galon is prone to bacteria and chemical leaching (depending on the type of container, some may leach into the water, causing long term cancer)...
Big Volt:
5 micron is not very effective because plenty chemicals may still go true. In this case, UV is not as effective as well because bacteria and virus can hide behind bigger molecule to avoid the UV rays...there's a filtration system called Pristine Duo that has 0.01 micron filtration capability. The water is pretty clear. Go to www.yukiwaterfilter.com (http://www.yukiwaterfilter.com/) to read about it...
My dad sells those Elken RO water filtration systems, we use one at home. It's kind of cool actually, I can drink it straight out of the tap (there's a small line that connects to your sink's pipe to channel water to the filters & system) and our house still uses ground water instead of PAM. Have been drinking it since I got home from the US and haven't been sick once.
Now if only they make one big enough to filter all the water in the house instead of just the drinking fountain, affordably of course. =)
gff, Question to Raymond Zielinski, <
[email protected] >
[Quote} " Ray, If the mitochondria is the basic ( Power plant of the cell ) releasing molecules that provide energy, what exactly would acid or alkali do to this power production? And would an unbalanced pH have an effect ? I thought it would , pH effects basic cell structure and particularly ( growth )" {end quote}
I probably posed the question wrong per our discussion, but that's what I asked.
(Response) {quote} Hi Rick, The overall pH in cells of most organisms is pretty much neutral (7.2-7.4) , but small locations in cells (like inside membrane compartments in mitochondria ) can have very different pH. In mitochondria, when sugars get oxidized to produce energy there is a pH difference across the mitochondrial membrane that is part of the energy used to synthesize ATP - there's also an electrical difference. Some things like this happen in other parts of cells, but most components of cells would not function too long if they were taken more than maybe 0.5 pH units away from what they experience normally.
It's harder to say at a whole organism level how pH differences would affect them. Most soils are slightly acidic (pH 5 to 6 ) , but I'm guessing you're thinking more about aquatic organisms. In that case, one of the things that change fast are the types of plants and algae that grow in the water ( partly because of how soluble minerals are at different pH ). Since they are the food for the majority of the animals that live their , if they get wiped out, the animals that eat them have a tough time surviving if they don't fine a good substitute that can live in whatever the pH has become. A change in pH might also make other materials that might be toxic more soluble ( like farm chemicals in runoff in this part of the world )! — Instead of settling out on lake bottom they'd be in the water and organisms would get a bigger dose. Between bigger dose of some unnatural chemical, less food , etc., the imbalance might cause health problems for the critters that live in ( or get their food from ) the water.
Nice to hear from you. Best regards and hope this helps !
Ray {End Quote}
gff, I should have said that an on going and long term exposure to imbalanced pH can have an adverse effect on cell growth, In my thoughts i never intended to insinuate that a single glass of water or a 5.5 pH can of juice would be damaging ( sorry for that ) I have done a substantial amount of study on this since my original post but still looking for constructive input. Thanks BV
I have been drinking my well water for years now using a Nazava Water Filter, it is a simple yet super effective tool to remove dangerous bacteria, parasites and other nasty stuff from water. You can find more details on http://nazava.com/productEng.php They are only 130 000 IDR and the filter candles last for 7000 liter so that is a lot cheaper than anything else!
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