View Full Version : Prita back to court
Nowdays are difficult time for Prita and her kids as she will be back to court due to her conflict with Omni hospital. We need to support her.
Why do we need to support her? What are your reasons for supporting her?
If she is sentenced, it would be a dangerous jurisprudence for the freedom of speech in this country, especially for any bloggers or journalists. Some of your posts, Pak RT, could have lead you to jail the same way it has lead her to jail for example. It, in itself, should be a reason to feel concerned, IMHO.
Several reasons
1. She was freed already by the court before
2. She just sent a complaint email to her limited friends (not to public) about hospital services
3. Authority from Ministry of Information & Communication who took part in making Electronic Information Transaction Law said that this law is not correctly applied to accuse her for defiling the hospital
4. She had been jailed for 21 days without contact with her children
abuse of power.
amazing lack of publicity spin
Yes, you're right. I just read Prita's initial complaint letter to her friends and new Jakarta Globe story about the re-trial <http://thejakartaglobe.com/city/doctors-testify-as-defamation-retrial-begins-for-prita/324811>.
Too bad the woman doesn't come across so well when she appears on TV. However, she's clearly being screwed by the hospital and the government.
Hombre de Maiz
20-08-09, 15:23
Willy and Atlantis, has Fred forwarded you the contact info for Quantas and Air France?
Willy and Atlantis, has Fred forwarded you the contact info for Quantas and Air France?
hombre, that should be spelt Qantas, and not Quantas... :drama:
The hard life for Prita has continued as she was sentenced Rp. 204 million penalty by the court for Omni Hospital. People now are collecting coins to support Prita morally to get justice. The story hasn't ended for Prita, next she must face other court for "criminal accusation".
Hi Pak Santoso,
I'm also interested in following Prita's case.
Whilst it's great for people to collect coin as a symbol to support her (and also support for freedom of speech), I still have difficult times in understanding why she was pleaded guilty in the first place - so according to me, why do we collect coins? Doesn't it mean that - by collecting coins to pay for Prita's fine - we also agreed that Prita was guilty?
You know it's difficult in here for "low social class" to get justice although her law process goes to Supreme Court.
Hi Pak Santoso,
I'm also interested in following Prita's case.
Whilst it's great for people to collect coin as a symbol to support her (and also support for freedom of speech), I still have difficult times in understanding why she was pleaded guilty in the first place - so according to me, why do we collect coins? Doesn't it mean that - by collecting coins to pay for Prita's fine - we also agreed that Prita was guilty?
She plead 'Guilty'..... I did not see that. Did anyone else see where she plead guilty.
It makes no sense that she is going through an appeal process if she plead guilty in the first place.
My understanding was there was an 'out of court settlement' offered but the hospital demanded a written affidavit and apology. She refused as it could be used against her if prosecutors subsequently charged her..
Lucky she refused, because the prosecutors charged her anyway and would have used that affidavit as 'evidence of guilt' and then would have 'probably' gotten a 5 - 6 year prison conviction.
This case stinks and shows how vulnerable we all are to this kind of injustice. Even writing on this thread makes us all vulnerable. :yield:
David
waarmstrong
09-12-09, 17:57
I believed she was found guilty on the second go round. If she had pleaded guilty there would have been no trial. As with most Indonesian judicial proceedings, verdicts having any relationship with the truth of the matter are purely coincidental.
She plead 'Guilty'..... I did not see that. Did anyone else see where she plead guilty.
It makes no sense that she is going through an appeal process if she plead guilty in the first place.
My understanding was there was an 'out of court settlement' offered but the hospital demanded a written affidavit and apology. She refused as it could be used against her if prosecutors subsequently charged her..
Lucky she refused, because the prosecutors charged her anyway and would have used that affidavit as 'evidence of guilt' and then would have 'probably' gotten a 5 - 6 year prison conviction.
This case stinks and shows how vulnerable we all are to this kind of injustice. Even writing on this thread makes us all vulnerable. :yield:
David
Indonesia has a long way to go before true Democratic freedoms can be had.
On your second point, I have personally deleted any and all political comments I may have inadvertently posted in the past, and unreservedly apologise to any and all who may have misunderstood my intent ... :whistle::whistle::whistle:
Pennies for Prita Campaign Pulls In Rp 500 Million, more than enough money to pay off the Rp 204 million ($21,624) fine if she loses her Supreme Court appeal.
http://thejakartaglobe.com/home/pennies-for-prita-campaign-pulls-in-rp-500-million/346523
She plead 'Guilty'..... I did not see that. Did anyone else see where she plead guilty.
It makes no sense that she is going through an appeal process if she plead guilty in the first place.
My understanding was there was an 'out of court settlement' offered but the hospital demanded a written affidavit and apology. She refused as it could be used against her if prosecutors subsequently charged her..
Lucky she refused, because the prosecutors charged her anyway and would have used that affidavit as 'evidence of guilt' and then would have 'probably' gotten a 5 - 6 year prison conviction.
This case stinks and shows how vulnerable we all are to this kind of injustice. Even writing on this thread makes us all vulnerable. :yield:David
I was into writing about how I thought the coin collection was not practical but symbolic, when my JakPost arrived this morning.
The newspaper's front page contained the latest news of Prita's case so I cancelled writing my post.
It seems like cool heads have eventually prevailed. Omni (probably in light of losing most of its clients) have decided to accept mediation and drop its civil suit and prevail the court to NOT execute the fine.
Prita, on the other hand, is required to drop her appeal and countersuit for over RP 1 trillion in damages.
However, she still faces a criminal trial created by those Prosecutors of the Attorney General's Office and a conviction can still put her in jail. It is hoped that the Judges in this trial have a better understanding of frivolous law and prevail in her favour also.
Then the Lawmakers (what were they thinking?) need to amend or scrap this law altogether...it is insiduous.
All that has occurred is that Indonesia now looks like a joke to the world, when it is attempting to be a serious regional and global player. Investment into the country will shy away and invest elsewhere. Omni will surely lose customers and income. People power is further entrenched.
However, hopefully, some incompetent heads will roll.
Prita should run for office, or at least be an advocate and role model for her kids. They have suffered the most, because of this ordeal.
Ever hopeful David :deadhorse:
Pennies for Prita Campaign Pulls In Rp 500 Million, more than enough money to pay off the Rp 204 million ($21,624) fine if she loses her Supreme Court appeal.
http://thejakartaglobe.com/home/pennies-for-prita-campaign-pulls-in-rp-500-million/346523
yup, but that is only the civil conviction, she still faces a criminal one as well.
waarmstrong
10-12-09, 15:26
I think the settlement is only in the talking stages now. No deal yet, and there probably will not be anything agreed until the outcome of the criminal case is known.
so let's see what happen with next criminal trial for Prita....undoubtly people will strongly support her, they can force Omni Hospital to not have many clients
so let's see what happen with next criminal trial for Prita....undoubtly people will strongly support her, they can force Omni Hospital to not have many clients
I'm afraid your last statement is overly optimistic in my opinion...
waarmstrong
10-12-09, 22:22
Voting with their feet is an effective tool available to the people to financially punish those who abuse the criminal and civil defamation laws. Lets hope it is being used. When the powerful understand that attacking ordinary people for speaking their mind has a down side, perhaps they will think twice bring such actions.
It still simply amazes me that the truth is not a complete defense in Indonesian defamation actions.
Maybe its time for Omni, like Century, to change its name.
Voting with their feet is an effective tool available to the people to financially punish those who abuse the criminal and civil defamation laws. Lets hope it is being used. When the powerful understand that attacking ordinary people for speaking their mind has a down side, perhaps they will think twice bring such actions.
It still simply amazes me that the truth is not a complete defense in Indonesian defamation actions.
Maybe its time for Omni, like Century, to change its name.
I agree entirely with your sentiments William. Unfortunately however, I am very cynical that the public will indeed use their feet to the degree necessary to effect change, and that in the short term at least those with the Power and resources in this Country will just continue to not give a rats arse what the public think or do.
The lack of support for International Corruption Day, in my mind a perfect opportunity for the Public to really show the Elite what they think and want, reflected the apathy if that's the correct word, that exists in Indonesia towards one of it's most pressing problems, and I'm afraid that serious change will be a long time in coming...:sad:
Quote by Omdafyd:
'reflected the apathy if that's the correct word, that exists in Indonesia towards one of it's most pressing problems.'
I believe you have used the correct word (apathy) to explain your meaning well but I'm not too sure that is the problem.
To be apathetic means that you have a choice, but are indifferent to the outcome. I don't think the average person here in Indonesia has such a choice.
I believe the problem is education, and I don't mean the 3 R's.
Educated and knowledgeable people have choices and beliefs and usually apply those in their attitude.
Therefore, educated people in general are NOT apathetic; in fact they are usually very verbal, as witnessed here on this forum.
All I saw yesterday was a chaotic bunch of students/hooligans attempting to emulate what they believe happens in the West. They do the same at soccer matches. That is NOT Democracy here NOR there.
What happened in Sulawesi when they stoned KFC...wtf had that to do with corruption?
I think it will take time for educators to first learn, then teach, how real democracy and civic responsibility should be observed and adhered to, much like the law, and rules of driving.
It seems to me that it is instilled in the Indonesian mindset that everything must be done through the 'back door'. No-one trusts the Institutions and unless there is a rebellion it will need education to change attitudes.
Indonesia is not unique in this concept but history tells us a firm hand is needed at the top.
We, on the other hand, can only witness, shake our heads, and hope it all works out for Indonesia and ourselves.
Apathetic politico David
David, that was my point exactly tho' not written as eloquently as yourself, that the people you highlight in your post who are 'Educated and knowledgeable people have choices and beliefs and usually apply those in their attitude.' and they chose not to become involved in the opportunity to send a loud and clear message to their Government.Apart from revolution, Social change usually always comes from the Middle classes...
I'm sure many of the worst corruptors at the highest levels in this Country also are educated and to a degree, knowledgable, but I acknowledge mine is a simplistic point of view.
Good news for Prita, it shows how strong people to support her.
But Prita is only one of many unfair prisoned "low social class" people recently in which Police and AGO don't practice any substantial justice feeling and just execute people based on written criminal law book (KUHP).
Omni drops civil suit against Prita
Multa Fidrus , The Jakarta Post , Tangerang | Fri, 12/11/2009 11:42 AM | Jakarta
Omni International Hospital has agreed to drop its civil suit against Prita Mulyasari, asking the court not to execute the verdict that asks Prita to pay Rp 204 million (US$21,600) for defaming the hospital.
“[We] hope that our goodwill will be accepted by Ibu Prita Mulyasari,” the hospital's director Dr. Bina Ratna told reporters at the hospital on Friday.
The Banten High Court had decided that Prita, the housewife who complained about the hospital's poor services through her blog, was guilty of defamation and fined her Rp 204 million.
Prita and her legal team had filed an appeal to the Supreme Court against the civil suit verdict. They are seeking Rp 133 million for material damage and Rp 1 trillion in compensation for immaterial damage.
Prita is still facing criminal charges at Tangerang District Court for spreading libel through email, breaching an electronic information and transaction law.
Ratna said that Omni respects the on going legal process, but “hope that what we do now could be considered by the judges in the trial.”
The civil suit compensation ordered by the Banten High Court, has started initiatives communities to donate coins for Prita.
Slamet Yuwono, a member of Prita's legal team from O.C. Kaligis and Associates, said Wednesday material support from community members had reached an estimated Rp 400 million. He said Rp 50 million of the figure was estimated to have come from donations from the public.
The Coins for Prita initiative expanded to many other areas aside from her hometown of Tangerang. Everyone from trash pickers to students have donated coins for collection.
Leaders of the movement agreed that Dec. 14 would be the final day for coin collection. The final amount raised will be announced on Dec. 17.
Calming words: Students of Bina Karya Kremil elementary school wave envelopes containing letters of support they about to send for defamation defendant Prita Mulyasari in Surabaya, East Java, on Friday. Antara/Bhakti Pundhowo
Great...Prita was acquitted! This shows how power of people against injustice.
Prita acquitted
The Jakarta Post | Tue, 12/29/2009 11:29 AM | National
Libel defendant Prita Mulyasari was acquitted of defamation charge on Tuesday by the Tangerang District Court.
In a criminal lawsuit trial filed by Omni International Hospital against Prita, judges weighed Prita did not make libelous statements in her email to 20 friends about Omni's poor service.
The judges said Prita only warned her colleagues to be careful about Omni, Antara reported.
The judges also said Prita was a victim of Omni poor service.
Prosecutors have demanded Prita be sentenced to six months in jail.
Omni filed civil and criminal lawsuits against Prita, accusing her of spreading a false complaint via Internet against the hospital.
Prita has lost in civil court and was fined Rp 204 million, but she filed an appeal to the Supreme Court.
waarmstrong
29-12-09, 22:44
Bit of an elitist attitude, Dave & Om, that only "educated" people are able to discern when they are being screwed and capable of doing something about the inequity. My guess is there are simply not enough people pissed off enough to spark revolutionary change. You might want to ask the French and Russian aristocracy if they think keeping the people illiterate forestalls revolution.
Hombre de Maiz
29-12-09, 22:59
Indonesia has already had a revolution in which the uneducated masses shook and nearly tore the country apart, the period 1945-1966, and the outcome was not pretty. Why do you think we are in the state we are in?
waarmstrong
29-12-09, 23:06
I think what came before and what came after have more to do with the present state of affairs, especially the after.
Bit of an elitist attitude, Dave & Om, that only "educated" people are able to discern when they are being screwed and capable of doing something about the inequity. My guess is there are simply not enough people pissed off enough to spark revolutionary change. You might want to ask the French and Russian aristocracy if they think keeping the people illiterate forestalls revolution.
That's not what I was trying to convey, not at all, so my apologies If I was not clear waarmstrong... :kiss:
I was trying to make two points in this thread.
1; That historically those with the most power to effect Social Change, the middle classes, chose not to come on to the streets on that particular day to show their support, and 2; as already stated above, apart from Revolutionary actions, Social Change usually ,if not always comes about from the Middles Classes, given that it is this group that traditionally has the Education, resources, free time, Social awareness and power through an enlightened vote, to do so... :peace:
I'm rather glad the hospital has messed up on this one.
If they had won there would have been serious potential problems for a lot of people.
I wonder what this daft stunt has cost the hospital.
waarmstrong
30-12-09, 10:18
Thanks for the clarification. Agreed on point one. The middle-class ox has not been sufficiently gored. On point two, it depends. I will say that the silent majority are great ones for trying to engineer beneficial social change without risking what they already have.
drahman2in1
03-01-10, 12:59
the good thing is Prita won and the bad thing is that hospital didnt get any fine for puttin "International" in the name, even they didnt take registration as international hospital...
waarmstrong
03-01-10, 16:40
I suppose the AG will see the benefit of appealing, now that they know that Prita has a big bank roll. Together with their cronies at the Supreme Court, they will try to fine a way to lighten her purse.
I suppose the AG will see the benefit of appealing, now that they know that Prita has a big bank roll. Together with their cronies at the Supreme Court, they will try to fine a way to lighten her purse.
Was that an unintended typo or a clever pun waarmstrong...:lol:
waarmstrong
03-01-10, 19:49
Was that an unintended typo or a clever pun waarmstrong...:lol:
I'd like to take credit as a clever punster, but alas the truth is its just a typo. You have a sharper eye than I, Om. Think I will just leave it as is.
I'm impressed Waarmstrong, you have integrity, I
would have claimed credit for the pun...:wink2:
waarmstrong
03-01-10, 21:10
You actually should take credit, Om, at least for noticing and connecting the dots.
drahman2in1
04-01-10, 00:40
i noticed that too before but couldnt reply soon he he he...
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