Halal Balloon Twisting while we are visiting Jakarta [Archive]

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

12-08-08, 05:29

Hi Everyone,

I made the mistake on posting this same message in the general chat area after finding inappropriate replies which the forum moderator removed. Glad they did that.

Since this is a family type post I believe I am in the correct place.

My connection to Indonesia is because my wife comes from there and I went there back in 1999 to marry her in Jakarta.

Anyway I am writing because of my hobby with twisting balloons which I am taking quite seriously. :D:D Well sort of. I am a computer programmer who wants to get out of the IT industry and have started to do so by twisting balloons in my local area here in Lowell, MA. The balloons are now a part of me just as my right arm is a part of my body. :)

I now have a family of 4 which will be traveling to Jakarta from mid September for about 1 month.

Ok, here's the real reason for this post. While we are in Jakarta I am offering my services as a Halal balloon twister for your event, or party. If you are interested, please let me know.

I have several videos on youtube showing my balloon twisting and would love comments on those videos. Just type

emad the twister

in the search field and you will see them.

In the avatar is Isma'il holding a balloon octopus which we both made.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this post. ;)

Truly,
Emad-ud-deen Richard Leiman, Eva, Ismail & Mustafa

kingwilly

12-08-08, 05:58

halal?

what makes balloon twisting halal or non halal? :confused:

atlantis

12-08-08, 08:36

Hi Everyone,

I have several videos on youtube showing my balloon twisting and would love comments on those videos. Just type

emad the twister

in the search field and you will see them.

Saw some of your videos on Youtube. I bet it is fun for kids. Wish you good luck.

halal?

what makes balloon twisting halal or non halal? :confused:

Would be interested to have an answer to the above question too.

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

12-08-08, 09:59

Hi Atlantis,

Thanks for writing.

Yes, the kids love it and I love doing it.

I started twisting balloons as a hobby because my wife started to do it and I said to her "wow. I want to do this too". She only did it for a short time be I got hooked and have been doing it for about 6 months.

Towards the end of one of the video was Isma'il (5 years old) and at the very end of the video was Mustafa (3 years old).

Truly,
Emad

kingwilly

12-08-08, 10:05

yes, but what makes it halal or nonhalal?

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

12-08-08, 10:08

kingwilly

12-08-08, 10:12

ok, it does, thank-you.

atlantis

12-08-08, 10:22

Rumah Natural

12-08-08, 12:11

Hi Kingwilly,

Thanks for your reply.

If I was to twist the balloons into shapes such as people or animals that would be considered Haram (not allowed under Islaam). This for me is not permitted since I am a Muslim. Also I used to twist an octopus but not any more because I found out it's Haram since it is a sea animal.

Halal (allowed under Islaam) would be to twist the ballons into shapes such as a sail boat, hats, flowers, etc.

Hope this helps.

Truly,
Emad

no such thing, even if there was, never heard of it before. Koran restraint people from twisting balloons into animal shapes? come on, even people at the time Koran "published" did not even recognize such thing as balloons.

if it is forbidden for muslims to twisting balloons into octopus shape, how about eating it? i love octopus esp. if it comes to sashimi! yummy yummy yummy

anyway, i will recommend you to my cousin whose daughter is having a birthday soon.. im sure it will be a great show and children will love it! how much do you charge? goodluck Emad!

kingwilly

12-08-08, 12:12

atlantis

12-08-08, 13:20

no such thing, even if there was, never heard of it before. Koran restraint people from twisting balloons into animal shapes? come on, even people at the time Koran "published" did not even recognize such thing as balloons.

if it is forbidden for muslims to twisting balloons into octopus shape, how about eating it? i love octopus esp. if it comes to sashimi! yummy yummy yummy

anyway, i will recommend you to my cousin whose daughter is having a birthday soon.. im sure it will be a great show and children will love it! how much do you charge? goodluck Emad!

Wouldn't it be because of the representation of the animal rather than because of the balloon itself? Living in a predominantly christian area of Indonesia, I have to admit that I lack of knowledge concerning the muslim religion though I am curious about the topic

Rumah Natural

12-08-08, 13:40

Wouldn't it be because of the representation of the animal rather than because of the balloon itself? Living in a predominantly christian area of Indonesi, I have to admit that I lack of knowledge concerning the muslim religion though I am curious about the topic

very possible, but still, never heard of it before. can someone help us here? tq

kingwilly

12-08-08, 13:44

very possible, but still, never heard of it before. can someone help us here? tq

I have heard that some versions/schools of thought of Islam ban representation of God and humans, since God created them and is perfect any human versions of the same thing would be less than perfect.

I have not heard it extended to animals also. (but it wouldn't surprise me either) but I dont think it is mainstream thought.

Rumah Natural

12-08-08, 13:59

I have heard that some versions/schools of thought of Islam ban representation of God and humans, since God created them and is perfect any human versions of the same thing would be less than perfect.

I have not heard it extended to animals also. (but it wouldn't surprise me either) but I dont think it is mainstream thought.

for God i do agree, also figuring our prophet. i.e. this happened in a scandinavian country (is it denmark or norway? helppp) a drawing representing Muhammad triggered a whole world moslem people reaction. also the one made by a dutch congressman broadcasted in youtube that made Indonesian govt for awhile banned youtube to be accessed. a german also made some kind of publication who later got killed. (thanks google!)

however, for human, i dont think so. anyway, im not a good moslem dont have a qualification to justify this. do we have an expert here?

paman

12-08-08, 14:10

I did a quick search and came up with this (http://www.religion-cults.com/Islam/islam3.html) website

The Koran forbids representation of human and animal figures. and this (http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/figs/hd_figs.htm) website

Although the often cited opposition in Islam to the depiction of human and animal forms holds true for religious art and architecture, in the secular sphere, such representations have flourished in nearly all Islamic cultures. The Islamic resistance to the representation of living beings ultimately stems from the belief that the creation of living forms is unique to God, and it is for this reason that the role of images and image makers has been controversial.note: not trying to stir up controversy on the interpretation of the Koran, but I that it was worth replying to.

kingwilly

12-08-08, 15:00

I did a quick search and came up with this (http://www.religion-cults.com/Islam/islam3.html) website
and this (http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/figs/hd_figs.htm) website

note: not trying to stir up controversy on the interpretation of the Koran, but I that it was worth replying to.

not at all, appreciate the effort.

atlantis

12-08-08, 15:09

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

12-08-08, 18:34

Hi Everyone,

Wow I was surprised that the post generated so many responses.

I'm not a scholar and not a good Muslim (have a long way to go), but Atlantis hit it on the nail as far as we believe. It's the animal representation that we follow that would make it Haram.

To Rumah Natural:

I would love to twist the balloons for your daughter's birthday.

Here in Lowell, MA I charge $25.00 per hour.

I'm not sure about Indonesia, but I'm very flexible. How much do you think I should be paid?

Truly,
Emad

kingwilly

12-08-08, 18:53

To Rumah Natural:

I would love to twist the balloons for your daughter's birthday.

Here in Lowell, MA I charge $25.00 per hour.

I'm not sure about Indonesia, but I'm very flexible. How much do you think I should be paid?

Perhaps you need to market yourself better than that....

I hired a magician for my sons 1st birthday a number of years ago,

She marketed herself as a party manager, or party entertainment organisers...

Magic show, some assistants dressed in dinosaur suits or something, some assistants who danced, (actually wearing cute almost playboy bunny style outfits, quite a few raised eyebrows from the mums present and more than one or two sneaky appreciative glances from the dads, organised kids games, including small presents, balloons, music, perhaps even some small amount of childrens party food, fairy bread and crisps etc.....

I think the total came to something like $100 or $150. But this was 5 years ago.

But as a parent organising a party, it made it very easy to have all the childrens entertainment completely sorted.

Something to consider....

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

12-08-08, 23:09

Hi Kingwilly,

Nice idea about the dressing up but it's just not me. A lot of people here do dress up as a clown and twist the balloons. Still not my style, but I was thinking about a really wacky outfit like a green neon shirt with a neon purple trousers, but for now everyone has been happy with how I have been dressing as shown in the video on YouTube.

If you go to Quincy Market in Boston you will see some balloon twisters there. Usually they dress as a clown or in some really colourful clothing that has extra bright colours like the neon colours.

I was thinking if the twisting business starts to take off I was thinking about adding magic tricks.

Truly,
Emad

Black Adder

12-08-08, 23:18

Bad News Fellas, my wife goes to Pizza Hut with her nieces once every few weeks and the ballon twisters in there make figurines of animals and humans all the time...........

But still no pork sausage on the pizza available...........1 thing at a time I guess.......

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

13-08-08, 05:07

Hi Black Adder,

From your post it looks like balloon twisting is popular in Jakarta.

Are a lot of people doing it?

Truly,
Emad

kingwilly

13-08-08, 06:15

Nice idea about the dressing up but it's just not me. A lot of people here do dress up as a clown and twist the balloons. Still not my style, but I was thinking about a really wacky outfit like a green neon shirt with a neon purple trousers, but for now everyone has been happy with how I have been dressing as shown in the video on YouTube.

you're are not listening.

I didnt say you should dress up, I said you should offer a whole lot more than just balloon twisting.

but up to you.

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

13-08-08, 06:24

Hi Kingwilly,

I was planning on adding some magic some time in the future because the supplier I get my balloons from (tmeyers.com) also sells magic supplies.

Truly,
Emad

kingwilly

13-08-08, 07:26

OK then, good luck with it all.

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

13-08-08, 18:49

Hi Cerobong Asap,

Good point since I am still learning about my new deen (since Nov 1996) as I will need to check with the Sheikh we follow to check on the ruling on Magic tricks.

I was considering getting a set of those metal trick rings that from the distanct look solid but you can pass them into each other but it will wait until I speak to our Sheikh.

Truly,
Emad

kingwilly

13-08-08, 21:07

Good point since I am still learning about my new deen (since Nov 1996) as I will need to check with the Sheikh we follow to check on the ruling on Magic tricks.

damn, now I know you are a troll, good spotting CA. it had me fooled.

kingwilly

13-08-08, 21:44

I was a troll two days ago. I wish you lot would make your mind up.

Actually I think our kosher halal twister may be for real, tormented, but for real. Did you know there are a number of Jews living in Indonesia? I mention the fact by way of comment only, not criticism less some prig with a mouth like a cat's ring states that I am racist or anti semetic or both.

Anyhow, good luck to the old chap, he has the air of Cat Stevens about him.

I dont think you're a troll, rather your comments and style is trollish

probably argumentative is a better way of terming it.

I was working with a Jewish fella a year or two back here, he only had a chip on both shoulders.

Jewish, American and Gay!

Sheeesh.

kingwilly

13-08-08, 22:05

No, my comments and style are realistic and frank, possibly somewhat overwhelming for the faint hearted or those with "hello kitty" underwear;

ooooooh.......

:(

kingwilly

13-08-08, 22:15

Where is all the young frumpet then, the little 18 year old SMA girls who want to practice their english? With a couple of exceptions this place is like an advert from "Stannah Stair Lifts Monthly".

quite.

but i dont think you are helping our average...

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

14-08-08, 00:52

Wow! CA how did you guess I am from a Jewish background? :)

And yes I am real, even though there are not a lot people like me out there and I hope when you guys have a birthday for your kids I can do the ballons for them as I and my 2 kids would like to meet the expat community too.

Truly,
Emad

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

14-08-08, 02:38

Hi Everyone,

Just thought of uploading a photo of our children.

We are also uploading some photos in the albums area.

Even though I'm American, I'd rather not live here in the states because my lifestyle and views contradict those of other Americans. I already lived in the UK for 5 years and discovered such a difference. The UK was so much better for me even though I had to leave when my work permit expired. Anyway, in the mean time I will continue to do my computer programming here until things change.

Truly,
Emad

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

14-08-08, 09:45

Hi CA,

I use this site for my balloon supplies and they spell it that way so I just took it for granted on the spelling.

http://www4.mailordercentral.com/tmyersmagic/departments.asp?dept=2

As for Isreal, the Isreali government won't know what to make of me! I'ts better to stay away from that place, at least for now.

As for Islaam, it's a way of life for me that I love.

Truly,
Emad

Eddyr

15-08-08, 05:38

Ha ha ha ha ha ha LMFAO ... Where is that smiley rolling on the ground.
Me thinks that Emad is a fisherman and uses twisted baloons as his bait for twisted forum members :D

kingwilly

15-08-08, 06:28

Ha ha ha ha ha ha LMFAO ... Where is that smiley rolling on the ground.
Me thinks that Emad is a fisherman and uses twisted baloons as his bait for twisted forum members :D

here tis...http://img116.exs.cx/img116/1231/z7shysterical.gif http://img116.exs.cx/img116/1231/z7shysterical.gif

but according to CA he is 100% genuine...

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

15-08-08, 09:43

Hi Kingwilly,

CA is correct. We are real and love the funny <^~twisted~^> sense of humor you guys have.

Emad

NadaB

27-08-08, 17:11

I'm a muslim and I havn't heard that, but their are many different sectors in Islam.

Good luck with your hobby and hope you enjoy your stay in Jkt.

atlantis

27-08-08, 19:12

He is very good mind, and I rather hope he is for real, he has that inner tranquility that I could only dream of.

He is. Would you see a troll posting his pics, talking about his camera and so on ? If one is in doubt, just go through his posts. Nothing about the usuall troll posts.:cool:

Emad-ud-deen Richard Leim

28-08-08, 05:31

Hi NadaB,

The sheikh we follow at (Daar-ul-Ehsaan) points out that creating images that represent people, animals, etc. is haram kind of like making a graven image so whenever someone asks me to twist something like that I am able to get them interested in something else such as a staff used in an adventure computer game.

We are really getting excited about comming to Jakarta. It's been over 5 years since our last visit.

Cerobong Asap,
Thank you for such nice words. I find it amusing that everyone was debating about me being real and enjoyed seeing those messages concerning that.

Atlantis,
We now have the Canon G9 and will be not taking any further pictures in JPG format, but in RAW format as suggested by another poster and will be using Photoshop Elements to convert them over to JPG and post them in the forums.

For those who have not seen the pictures Atlantis was talking about, they are in the Travel thread.

Bye for now.

atlantis

28-08-08, 06:46

Cerobong Asap,
Thank you for such nice words. I find it amusing that everyone was debating about me being real and enjoyed seeing those messages concerning that.

Atlantis,
We now have the Canon G9 and will be not taking any further pictures in JPG format, but in RAW format as suggested by another poster and will be using Photoshop Elements to convert them over to JPG and post them in the forums..

1. Your drastic choices in terms of professional life and religious beliefs, and the fact that you seem to assume it perfectly, obviously force respect. Thumbs up!
2. I read the posts. Even if I do not give inputs on the thread I am eager to see the results. Thumbs up again !

Eddyr

29-08-08, 04:57

Hi NadaB,

The sheikh we follow at (Daar-ul-Ehsaan) points out that creating images that represent people, animals, etc. is haram kind of like making a graven image

Although it seems admirable you know that some purists would find that haram and would urge you not to note too much in what others teach that is not in Quran brother. Maybe that is why it's given mmmmmmm. Sometimes people can take advantage of our enthusiasm. I have found quite a few "sheikhs" who dearly enjoy adding that little bit more than what the author of the instructions book intended.

kingwilly

29-08-08, 05:56

only a few?

Eddyr

29-08-08, 07:11

only a few?

I said "met" not know of! Of course there are a multitude of these self proclaimed "sheikhs" preying on peoples desire for spirituality around the world.
I myself am a sheikh of sorts The Caliph of Carnal Knowledge or CCK :cool:

kingwilly

29-08-08, 08:29

Caliph huh?

So can I come seek your knowledge during times of confusion and need?

bianca

30-08-08, 02:46

Although it seems admirable you know that some purists would find that haram and would urge you not to note too much in what others teach that is not in Quran brother. Maybe that is why it's given mmmmmmm. Sometimes people can take advantage of our enthusiasm. I have found quite a few "sheikhs" who dearly enjoy adding that little bit more than what the author of the instructions book intended.

Al Qur’an does mention forbidding representations of living things, however its always in connection with “idolising” and “worship” of these representation, in stead of worshipping Allah.
Someties verses can be interpreted in different ways. To me, these verses below are to stop people from making representations with the intention to worship them. I think that some representations are used for different purposes such as adverts, book covers, an oilpainting of people in a town square, or a balloon. The intention of these are not for worship, or prayer. I dont think these verses in Al Qur’an are referring to representations of this more “inocent” category...

Here the verses below to see the connection to “worship” and “idolising”.

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/ (http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/)
Surah 21 Anbiya 52-54
21:52 when he said unto his father and his people, “What are these images to which you are so intensely devoted?”
21:53 They answered: ‘‘We found our forefathers worshipping them.”
21:54 Said he: “Indeed, you and your forefathers have obviously gone astray!”

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/ (http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/)
Surah 7 A’raf 148
7:148 AND IN his absence the people of Moses took to worshipping the effigy of a calf [made] of their ornaments, which gave forth a lowing sound." [113] (http://www.islamicity.com/Quransearch/action.lasso.asp?PageCurrent=6&-database=Quran&-Table=tblMasterTranslit&-Response=Sreply1.asp&-Error=SReply1.asp&-MaxRecords=25&-token=||%3cta%3etrue%3c/ta%3e%3ctt%3etrue%3c/tt%3e%3cts%3etrue%3c/ts%3e%3cdc%3efalse%3c/dc%3e%3ctx%3etrue%3c/tx%3e%3cal%3etrue%3c/al%3e&-op=eq&chapter=7&-sortorder=Ascend&-sortfield=Verse&-Search##) Did they not see that it could neither speak unto them nor guide them in any way? [And yet] they took to worshipping it, for they were evildoers:

atlantis

30-08-08, 05:55

For some Islamic hardliners, the above traduction would be a sin by itself, and argue that Al Quran can exist and be interpreted only in Arabic language.

bianca

30-08-08, 10:14

what do you mean by humpy?

i think you dont get what i mean. all i wanted to say is that i dont think the forbidding of pictures of animals of humans and animals should be taken too far. if you want to worship it, like a statue of ananother God, i realise that its forbidden. but somehow i dont think it was meant to applies to "day to day" pictures, as they are not for intention of worshipping, just for art or enternatinment. so i think it should be fine if he wants to make balloons... thats all.
sorry if i made a confusion. was just trying to back up my argument