View Full Version : Fiskal and Indonesian wives of Expats
burungkecil
15-04-09, 23:10
Yep, here we go again.
I've already asked here about the rules for Indonesian wives accompanying their expat husbands overseas.
I just found this on a forum
Siti Chairunnissa
February 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm (http://dudiwahyudi.com/pajak/pajak-penghasilan/tak-punya-npwp-bayar-fiskal-rp-25-juta-mulai-1-januari-2009.html#comment-1383) Mohon input dari bapak
Saya menikah dengan Expat dari Canada, dan dia diberi NPWP dari perusahaan dia bekerja. Selaku istri yang sah, saya memiliki surat nikah yang sah pula. Setau saya, istri bisa menggunakan NPWP suami dengan menyertakan poto copy buku nikah jikalau bepergian keluar negeri. Betapa terkejutnya saya, waktu di pemeriksaan imigrasi dan fiskal counter, mereka tetap meminta saya membayar fiskal 2.5 jt walaupun saya sudah memberikan potocopy NPWP suami dan buku nikah dan KTP saya (dengan memperlihatkan yang asli pula). Alasan mereka saya tidak punya kartu keluarga. Bukankah buku nikah juga salah satu bukti yang menyatakan kalau saya istri yang sah dari pemegang NPWP tersebut. Dan itu juga merupakan alternatif yang diberikan kantor pajak. Lagipula, jika saya ada kartu keluarga, nama suami juga tidak bisa masuk ke dalam kartu keluarga tsb. Untuk informasi, Saya berdomisili di Kerinci, Pekanbaru. Dan tgl 10 kemaren melakukan one day trip untuk medical treatment di Singapore. Yang ingin saya tanyakan, apakah memang demikian peraturannya?
It says that her Canadian husband showed his NPWP and his wife (who doesn't have an NPWP) showed her original marriage certificate. The officials at the airport forced the wife to pay Rp 2.5 million because she didn't show a kartu keluarga with their names on it.
Now, as most of us have been told in the past that the names of expats (except if your name is Atlantis;)) are not included in the kartu keluarga, are we all going to have to pay $230 to bring our wives with us?
I don't know if this helps but I have taken my Indonesian wife "abroad" on many occassions departing from Indonesia in the past, four times to the UK, many more to Singapore and four times to the Philippines
She has had to pay Fiskal on most occassions. however to do so she just took her passport to the Fiskal counter and paid the necessary. I have never been involved in the matter.
She just shows her Indonesian passport and airline or ferry ticket to the Fiskal counter
At Soekarno-Hatta it was 1,000,000 Rp and at Batam ferry terminal it was 500,000 Rp.
The only time she didn't have to pay Fiskal was when I was working in the Philippines and the Indonesian Embassy there gave her a document showing she was resident in the RP (she had an RP "green card") which she still had to take to the Fiskal counter as usual but the fee was waived.
Maybe the Law or fees as such have changed since we have not been out of RI now for over two years?
For sure however unless they are "normally resident outside RI" Fiskal has to be paid by all Indonesians on leaving the country, ... I believe?
You shouldn't pay fiscal b'cos your husband already have NPWP; and you bring the necessary docs to prove that you're legally married. I have the opposite case, I have NPWP and my husband who hold Kitas bring the copy of our marriage cert and copy of my ID and NPWP (no need Kartu keluarga, bcos in my KK can't put my husband's name as he's not having KITAB yet) and show it to the immigration/fiscal counter; they asked him if he has NPWP and he just give copy of mine to them and copy of our marriage cert and told them we're husband and wife have one NPWP only, and here's my wife's. They just took it and stamp his passport without saying a word anymore. This is just info, most of the time they'll try to make you pay but once they know you're understand the rules n regulations, they'll stop.
Hope it will help.
I don't know if this helps but I have taken my Indonesian wife "abroad" on many occassions departing from Indonesia in the past, four times to the UK, many more to Singapore and four times to the Philippines
She has had to pay Fiskal on most occassions. however to do so she just took her passport to the Fiskal counter and paid the necessary. I have never been involved in the matter.
She just shows her Indonesian passport and airline or ferry ticket to the Fiskal counter
At Soekarno-Hatta it was 1,000,000 Rp and at Batam ferry terminal it was 500,000 Rp.
The only time she didn't have to pay Fiskal was when I was working in the Philippines and the Indonesian Embassy there gave her a document showing she was resident in the RP (she had an RP "green card") which she still had to take to the Fiskal counter as usual but the fee was waived.
Maybe the Law or fees as such have changed since we have not been out of RI now for over two years?
For sure however unless they are "normally resident outside RI" Fiskal has to be paid by all Indonesians on leaving the country, ... I believe?
Correct, but now every Indonesian citizen, and expats have the right to obtain an NPWP and this will allow an exemption from Fiscal...however then, as a registerred 'potential taxpayer' an annual tax statement must be submitted...
Each of us needs to work out what is most appropiate for our individual situation.
are we all going to have to pay $230 to bring our wives with us?
Question: why your wife doesn't get her own NPWP? Nothing forbid her to get a NPWP, then submit her own annual delaration. Kantor Pajak won't refuse to issue her a NPWP, even if she has no income of her own, and with it she will be eligible for the exemption of FLN.
I have a NPWP. So as my wife.
A NPWP is just a recognition that you are a registered tax subject of Indonesia. You have a taxable income, then you pay tax. You don't, then you shouldn't be taxed.
It is may be not a bad idea also that, sometimes, for legal reasons, the two parties of a mixed couple are treated separetly on the tax forms, in terms of income and assets...
See my drift? :cool:
Just my two cents...
Now, as most of us have been told in the past that the names of expats (except if your name is Atlantis;)) are not included in the kartu keluarga,
After extensive research which brought me in the archives of the biro hukum of my city, I finally understood why I am lucky to be in this situation (though it is of no use for me on the FLN topic, since both my wife and I have NPWP). There was an incredible contraction in between the regional and national regulation, at the time it has been issued, on the definition of permanent residency. I just found out about it... yesterday! Funny that you are mentionning it almost at the same time.:)
For your information:
Any foreigner staying in Indonesia on a KITAP is legally a permanent resident and is entitled to stay for 5 full years in Indonesia. In the same package, a KITAP holder is entitled to (among other priviledges):
- a KK with his name as the head of the family
- a KTP orang asing
- a SIM valid for 5 years
The above aren't freebies and obviously bear a fee.
I live in Egypt my wife now in Indonesia...she is from indonesia
she has to pay fiskal when she want to come back to Egypt ????
please informe me...
thanks
Yes she does, unless she is part of the exemption program (eg: she is under 21, she holds a NPWP number, she is an indonesian residing legally in a foreign country more than 6 months a year...etc). She should get in touch to the Kantor Pajak by going directly there or by phoning to: 500200 to have further explanation relative to her situation toward taxes in Indonesia.
Question: why your wife doesn't get her own NPWP?
For your information:
Any foreigner staying in Indonesia on a KITAP is legally a permanent resident and is entitled to stay for 5 full years in Indonesia. In the same package, a KITAP holder is entitled to (among other priviledges):
- a KK with his name as the head of the family
- a KTP orang asing
- a SIM valid for 5 years
The above aren't freebies and obviously bear a fee.
Atlantis you get more interesting in your immigration posts posts by the day, .... Is KK the "family card" ?
Last year they issued my wife a new "family card" along with my KITAS II with just our two names on it as we were now deemed to be a "family in our own right" ... although in truth I don't know (nor care) which of us is the "head" as such...(previously she has had to use her "old" family card with all her family members on).
I obviously understand KTP but what is SIM please?
Is KK the "family card" ?
KK is the acronym for Kartu Keluarga/family card.
I obviously understand KTP but what is SIM please?
SIM stands for Surat Ijin Mengemudi/drivers license
Note to all regular users: in order to help the whole community, a thread concerning indonesian acronyms has been started a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php?t=2539
Most of us know and use acronyms everyday. It would be nice if you guys participate in filling the thread in the link, in order to help any new comer. Thanks. :)
Many thanks for the link Atlantis:).. there are so many acronyms here I get a bit lost.:confused:
Atlantis you get more interesting in your immigration posts posts by the day, .... Is KK the "family card" ?
Last year they issued my wife a new "family card" along with my KITAS II with just our two names on it as we were now deemed to be a "family in our own right" ... although in truth I don't know (nor care) which of us is the "head" as such...(previously she has had to use her "old" family card with all her family members on).
I obviously understand KTP but what is SIM please?
Sincere apologies Atlantis, my wife has a new KK due to being married to me but only her name is on it as yet? So obviously she is head of the family and as yet the rest ie me are not on the said KK:confused:
Apparently my name has not gone on yet as I am Orang Asing.
Sincere apologies Atlantis, my wife has a new KK due to being married to me but only her name is on it as yet? So obviously she is head of the family and as yet the rest ie me are not on the said KK:confused:
Apparently my name has not gone on yet as I am Orang Asing.
kudagila, the wife is always the head of any family, just ask 'she who must be obeyed'. :rolleyes:
My wife however is now a family due to being married to me so they give her her own KK... I'm totally confused now as intitially she told me we now have our own family card due to her being married to me ... but on checking only her name is on it? ... even though they apparently agree she has her own family now? ... They can't put me on because I am Orang Asing:confused: I'm totally confused now but not unduly worried here:)
By law, only foreigners holding a KITAP can have a Kartu Keluarga on their name, where they are listed as chief of the family. I am may be an exception since they granted me one which costed me a mere IDR 10.000 rupiah a few years ago. But you know, I am a lucky guy.:D I qualified already in 2004 and 2009 to vote (though I did not use my "right"). I guess I pissed off to many administrations, that they give me in advance papers that I don't even request... :)
Yeah, Indonesians love acronyms but they're so practical to pronounce so I like them too.
Sorry to be repetitive, but I'm Indonesian and married to a foreigner and I live in his country, therefore, I'm a resident. Each time I visit Indonesia I never paid the fiscal as long as my stay here is 3 months max. It used to be 3-4 times a year, as a foreign country resident, you're exempted.
Today, it only applies when staying in Indonesia no longer than 182 days. Otherwise, you'll be hit with the new fiscal of Rp 2.500.000/US $ 250,-
The more that gets posted the more cloudy the issue becomes. (especially all those quirky situations related to retirees and people outside the country)
I suspect the most widespread problem is male Expats (with KITAS and NPWP) married to Indonesian (with her own KK but no NPWP) who have difficulty at the airport getting fiscal exemption for their wife.
The question is therefore - Can male Expat on KITAS (and has NPWP) be added to his Wifes KK ? (not necessarily as the head)
If answer is no, then what other means of proving his wife reports tax under his NPWP?
Note - for Annual Tax Filing, there is already a dependent form "Susunan Keluarga" included in which you can declare husband wife and any kids all listed under the same NPWP number as the father. - Unfortunately this is something you fill in and just submit. If the tax office were able to authenticate this form and give a copy back to the NPWP holder then this would prove conclusively that wife's tax affairs were already being reported to the Tax office under the husbands NPWP - maybe the tax office could be persuaded to do this simple extra task to ease the problem? Is this asking too much ?
The more that gets posted the more cloudy the issue becomes. (especially all those quirky situations related to retirees and people outside the country)
I suspect the most widespread problem is male Expats (with KITAS and NPWP) married to Indonesian (with her own KK but no NPWP) who have difficulty at the airport getting fiscal exemption for their wife.
The question is therefore - Can male Expat on KITAS (and has NPWP) be added to his Wifes KK ? (not necessarily as the head)
If answer is no, then what other means of proving his wife reports tax under his NPWP?
Note - for Annual Tax Filing, there is already a dependent form "Susunan Keluarga" included in which you can declare husband wife and any kids all listed under the same NPWP number as the father. - Unfortunately this is something you fill in and just submit. If the tax office were able to authenticate this form and give a copy back to the NPWP holder then this would prove conclusively that wife's tax affairs were already being reported to the Tax office under the husbands NPWP - maybe the tax office could be persuaded to do this simple extra task to ease the problem? Is this asking too much ?
As I understand it the answers are..NO :( and YES. :rolleyes:
The answer to the question asked by Mercime about male Expat on KITAS be added to his Wifes KK is quite simple and very clear: NO.
Legally speaking, only Indonesian citizen and foreigners on a KITAP can be listed on the same Kartu Keluarga.
Source: Pasal 62 UU 23/2006 tentang administrasi kependudukan
1) Penduduk Warga Negara Indonesia dan Orang Asing yang memiliki Izin Tinggal Tetap hanya diperbolehkan terdaftar dalam 1 (satu) KK.
Translation:
1) Only Indonesian resident citizen and foreigners who kave a Permanent Residency permit can be authorised to be registered in one family card.
Thank you both.
That only leaves me with finding other ways of proving my wife is recorded under my NPWP.
Maybe 'problems' are less likely at the major exit points.
Congratulations on this wonderfull informative site
Congratulations on this wonderfull informative site
Thanks. I believe that all regular users who spend time to try to share their experience would appreciate your comment.:)
Last month my wife and I left Indonesia; she went to the counter and came back with a fist full of IDR, when I asked her what happened she said she would tell me later. She doesn’t have a NPWP; I am not obliged to pay because I come in on a VOA, but she told me that the girl serving her asked if the tax was going to be reimbursed and she said no, so the girl gave her a 1.000.000 discount…nice, sometimes it works for you…
Previous to that she did go and apply for a NPWP and was told she has to submit a monthly return, is this the case? The reason she didn’t end up getting it was she was told that because she doesn’t have any income, but here husband does and is on a VOA, they might start to ask questions and make her life difficult. No I am not obliged to pay tax as I spend so much time out of the country even if I did have a KITAS and NPWP.
But is it worth the hassle for her and does she have to submit a monthly return?
But is it worth the hassle for her and does she have to submit a monthly return?
One annual report only.
.........]But is it worth the hassle for her and does she have to submit a monthly return?
I think it is worth . The Kantor Pajak has people to explain how to fill the forms . I did the last annual return report for me and my Indonesian wife . It was very easy .
My wife and I are preparing all the documents required to travel to Indonesia this coming month of September. This is the first time my wife travels back to Indonesia as a visitor since she moved to my home country almost 2 years ago. Yesterday, the consular officer at the KBRI told her the stamp on her passport showing she resides outside Indonesia is no longer recognized by Imigrasi and therefore she has to get a certificate from the embassy for that same purpose. Has anybody have this same experience?
On a separate note (commented also on another thread) my son's passport is, after more than 10 months of applying for it, still not here. The consul tells us not to worry and that in case the passport doesn't arrive by the end of this month, he'll extend a SosBud on my son's Colombian passport. He denied issuing an affidavit on my son's passport atesting we already applied for the Indonesian one, arguing the affidavit is no longer used....:confused
This is worrying me, as my son is by right already an Indonesian citizen.... nevermind (tidak apa2 :biggrin: ) the additional fee I would have to pay for this visa. I don't know how this visa on his existing passport could complicate matters on other issues pertaining to his double citizenship. Any suggestions are highly welcome.
On a separate note (commented also on another thread) my son's passport is, after more than 10 months of applying for it, still not here. The consul tells us not to worry and that in case the passport doesn't arrive by the end of this month, he'll extend a SosBud on my son's Colombian passport. He denied issuing an affidavit on my son's passport atesting we already applied for the Indonesian one, arguing the affidavit is no longer used....:confused
To be honest Redsnapr, I find the explanation of the consul a bit weird. Affidavit are still issued by Imigrasi. The fact that an application for your son's passport is still pending maybe the reason why he dosn't want to issue an affidavit, but saying that affidavits aren't any longer in use is just bullshit.
This is worrying me, as my son is by right already an Indonesian citizen.... nevermind (tidak apa2 :biggrin: ) the additional fee I would have to pay for this visa. I don't know how this visa on his existing passport could complicate matters on other issues pertaining to his double citizenship. Any suggestions are highly welcome.
No problem for his double citizenship to be regularised after. A sosbud is not denying him in anyway his rights. What is a shame is due to the incompetence of some PNS in KBRI bogota or in Indonesia, an indonesian citizen (your son) is forced to enter HIS country on a foreign passport. Real shame, but no legal problem to fear because of it. Anyway, if the Pasor RI of your son doesn't come out before you leaving Bogota, the sosbud is the easiest solution.
How long are you gonna stay in Indonesia and are you gonna stay in one place or moving around?
Thanks, Atlantis. I just hope the passport will arrive before we depart to Jakarta. I find this delay also a very sad and strange issue. The attitudes and mentalities of Colombians and Indonesians are not so different, in relative terms, of course. The much commented "tidak apa apa" attitude, the corruption, etc. are well known to us here too; but in the case of my son's passport, we went to the local kantor where we live when he was 2 months old. We had to bring only the bank receipt of the passport fee payment (government offices are not allowed to receive any money... :wink: ), 2 photos and his birth certificate, which btw was issued right at the clinic where he was born. To our amazement we got the passport on the same day! I'd hate to think this delay is because my son is a mixed marriage child.
How long are you gonna stay in Indonesia and are you gonna stay in one place or moving around?
We will be moving around. My sister is coming with us and this is her first time in Asia. We plan to stay the first week in Jakarta visiting the in laws and extended family... that will be fun ... :whistle: Then, another week or so in Bali. Back out of Jakarta, the rest of the month we plan to go to Pelabuhan Ratu, Garut and Yogja but just for a couple of days/nights each. Now that I see it, this plan may be too optimistic, not to mention exhausting; we'll see.
You can open www.pajak.go.id
I wanna attach some info here but unfortunately the size is big so I cant. Well if you want to read about the info you can visit http://www.4shared.com/file/124610086/bf7772ad/Pajak.html
.......................http://www.4shared.com/file/124610086/bf7772ad/Pajak.html
Cheche , could you tell us , in few words , what is in this file ? Is it something that you can't find in the pajak.go.id website ?
Dear Marcus,
Actually you can find it in the website, I just want to make easier for you, so you dont have to sort out the website.
Well, the link is about :
1. Peraturan Dirjend Pajak No. 53/PJ/2008 (this is the policy for Fiskal and a bit too long), dated 31 December 2008
2. Pajak Revisi Akhir (The latest revision of the policy but much simple,only one page), dated 31 January 2009
Oh, well if you have anything to ask, just ask, I will let you know if I can help...write me an email....
Thanks.
Regards,
Cece
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