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Just a thought..
Have any of you folks, expats working or retired and living in the big smoke, had the local Jalan or RT Arisan at your place?
As I'm typing this closetted in my sanctuary, I have 30 odd women having a community meeting {Arisan} in the ruang keluarga outside the door and of course I can hear everything..it's actualy impressive to hear the singing which I think is about Pancacilla?? and even the Muslim Prayers..no Christian ones 'tho...
What a great system of community spirit, everybody donates small amounts of money each month and those who need to can pinjam, Once a year I think, each individual gets a lump sum back and other funds are used for a variety of community activities, including paying the guy who collects the rubbish.
They are having a great time from what I can hear, laughing and gasbagging and of course the great Indonesian tradition of breaking bread together will happen later. My partner has been cooking and orginising stuff all day for this.
Australia and other countries could take a lesson here...
Comments, sarcastic or otherwise are welcome despite what some posters think about me ;}
Yeah......... it's called a Pub M8.
The singing is 30 odd gentlemen singing "What's the colour of a two cent piece ??? Copaaaar" and 30 green bottles............ followed be a loud rendition of "I Love You Mate"
The money raised gets bail for frank after pi$$ing on the Divisional Van (and his broken nose)
The traditional 'Breaking of Glass" together is the stubbies as they hit the side of said divisional van.
You asked for it >> (Comments, sarcastic or otherwise are welcome despite what some posters think about me ;}
What a great system of community spirit !!! :D
Yeah......... it's called a Pub M8.
The singing is 30 odd gentlemen singing "What's the colour of a two cent piece ??? Copaaaar" and 30 green bottles............ followed be a loud rendition of "I Love You Mate"
The money raised gets bail for frank after pi$$ing on the Divisional Van (and his broken nose)
The traditional 'Breaking of Glass" together is the stubbies as they hit the side of said divisional van.
You asked for it >> (Comments, sarcastic or otherwise are welcome despite what some posters think about me ;}
What a great system of community spirit !!! :D
No Paul, I didn't "ask" for it I said, "Comments, sarcastic or otherwise are welcome" ...about the Arisan and not a refererance to our 'debate' in another thread!
You, simply took an opportunity to attack and chose to 'give it to me', in a format disguised as sarcasm, or at least you tried to anyway...rather childishly, and not even funny. :{
It was a serious post about community, and I was hoping for sensible replies...
I'm embarrassed for you.
So, just have another Bintang and sleep it off...
Yes, I agree that it can be admirable and comforting. But the other side of the same coin, however, is people can be all up in your business. You dare not lift a finger for fear of upsetting the community.
Yes, I agree that it can be admirable and comforting. But the other side of the same coin, however, is people can be all up in your business. You dare not lift a finger for fear of upsetting the community.
Not my partner Mauricio :}
The very first thing she did on moving here was to get the two trouble makers together, sat them down and, in the Javanese way {mixed with some learn't Aussie assertion}, confronted them about the bullshit they had been spreading.
Now, she has respect from the community, despite being younger than many of them, and strong support for her actions as this is the first time these two had ever been put in their place.
No one will dare mess with her now and any gossip behind the scenes, which Javanese women just love to do, is always reported back to her...
I have found that despite the principles of Pancasila people are just people and it's the same everywhere, go to an Australian country town for example..everyones knows and wants to know one's business :}
Woah Tiger........... put back in the claws again !!
This had absolutely and completely NOTHING to do with our previous gentlemanly stoush. Nuttin !!
I found the post quite interesting, no matter whom it came from, notwithstanding who wrote it !
By coincidence it was you............. (he with no sense of humour whatsoever) and for that I am sorry.
It was a cultural post yes ??? Why can't the rest of us also share our equivalent of our cultural jalan ?? (as pathetic as Aussie culture can be sometimes)
You know mate........ it's NOT all about you. This is a public forum, and if you're going to whinge and cry every time someone disagrees with you, or takes the Pi$$.......... go home to Mummy, or buy a bigger keyboard :D (said in total tongue in cheek mode with smirk on face ok)
I've been a loyal member of this forum for about 7 years and have never experienced such knee jerk rections. We used to be able to joke around here and take the micky out of each other with smiles on our faces. Guess it's time to delete this link. All the old crew real people seem to have gone ??
Where's the floggle when you need him ?
And now I've run out of bintangs....... and it's all your fault :eek:
Woah Tiger........... put back in the claws again !!
This had absolutely and completely NOTHING to do with our previous gentlemanly stoush. Nuttin !!
I found the post quite interesting, no matter whom it came from, notwithstanding who wrote it !
By coincidence it was you............. (he with no sense of humour whatsoever) and for that I am sorry.
It was a cultural post yes ??? Why can't the rest of us also share our equivalent of our cultural jalan ?? (as pathetic as Aussie culture can be sometimes)
You know mate........ it's NOT all about you. This is a public forum, and if you're going to whinge and cry every time someone disagrees with you, or takes the Pi$$.......... go home to Mummy, or buy a bigger keyboard :D (said in total tongue in cheek mode with smirk on face ok)
I've been a loyal member of this forum for about 7 years and have never experienced such knee jerk rections. We used to be able to joke around here and take the micky out of each other with smiles on our faces. Guess it's time to delete this link. All the old crew real people seem to have gone ??
Where's the floggle when you need him ?
And now I've run out of bintangs....... and it's all your fault :eek:
Floggle is alive and well obviously ;}
stt_cibubur
09-03-09, 21:44
Not my partner Mauricio :}
The very first thing she did on moving here was to get the two trouble makers together, sat them down and, in the Javanese way {mixed with some learn't Aussie assertion}, confronted them about the bullshit they had been spreading.
Now, she has respect from the community, despite being younger than many of them, and strong support for her actions as this is the first time these two had ever been put in their place.
No one will dare mess with her now and any gossip behind the scenes, which Javanese women just love to do, is always reported back to her...
I have found that despite the principles of Pancasila people are just people and it's the same everywhere, go to an Australian country town for example..everyones knows and wants to know one's business :}
My opinion : Her friends are just pure dumb arses or they just tale tellers... oh mummy, she call me dumb, oh mummy.. she call you busy body !
Yes she did! and she also said " stop being a#s kisser"!.
Hari gini gitu lho..masih aja ada kambing yg kerjanya ikut ikutan doang.. kasihan deh.
Arisan is just women gathering and collectiong the money, and lend it to first person name appear from the spin/little hole ( normally it just a plastic cup with rolled up paper with name inside). Many women joined the arisan because of the money, not the gathering. They need cash in advance, so the only way to get it is ARISAN.
My opinion : Her friends are just pure dumb arses or they just tale tellers... oh mummy, she call me dumb, oh mummy.. she call you busy body !
Yes she did! and she also said " stop being a#s kisser"!.
Hari gini gitu lho..masih aja ada kambing yg kerjanya ikut ikutan doang.. kasihan deh.
Arisan is just women gathering and collectiong the money, and lend it to first person name appear from the spin/little hole ( normally it just a plastic cup with rolled up paper with name inside). Many women joined the arisan because of the money, not the gathering. They need cash in advance, so the only way to get it is ARISAN.
Ouch, the cat tried to scratch me :}
I'm not sure where in Solo you came from or where you currently live..but I can assure you it's not like that here.
My neighbours are not married to bule, or have their own business. they teach in Universities, High schools or work in Banks and don't need to spin a plastic cup for pennies..
One thing about life I have learned, never forget or deny where you came from, life is so full of ups and downs, you never know when you might need that little plastic cup, again :}
EDIT.. I didn't say anything about them being friends, and they are not..they are neighbours...
why do people feel it necessary to quote the post above them? Reply is called reply for a reason...
stt_cibubur
09-03-09, 22:26
Ouch, the cat tried to scratch me :}
I'm not sure where in Solo you came from or where you currently live..but I can assure you it's not like that here.
My neighbours are not married to bule, or have their own business. they teach in Universities, High schools or work in Banks and don't need to spin a plastic cup for pennies.....
So, I guess the arisan money is more 1jt/person right? Tell me about it ...even if they work in the bank, school..you think they dont need pennies?? ..come on wake up man!!!! this is Indonesia, not Australia...I got a friend work in the bank and get angkot to and from the "kost" everyday..do you think they get paid good salary? no they dont!
One thing about life I have learned, never forget or deny where you came from, life is so full of ups and downs, you never know when you might need that little plastic cup, again :}...
I've learned from my lesson, I come from there, I know what life in there was like... and I am telling the fact.
EDIT.. I didn't say anything about them being friends, and they are not..they are neighbours...
Exactly...the gossip gangs/conspiracy start from the neighbourhood. And then become fanatic religious meeting. I've been there, I seen it...Gathering on the weekend , just few of neighbours ( full family) having BBQ is much much better than women arisan at home.
It's more pro and modern way if do the arisan in cafe/restaurant/club.
So, I guess the arisan money is more 1jt/person right? Tell me about it ...even if they work in the bank, school..you think they dont need pennies?? ..come on wake up man!!!! this is Indonesia, not Australia...I got a friend work in the bank and get angkot to and from the "kost" everyday..do you think they get paid good salary? no they dont!
I've learned from my lesson, I come from there, I know what life in there was like... and I am telling the fact.
Exactly...the gossip gangs/conspiracy start from the neighbourhood. And then become fanatic religious meeting. I've been there, I seen it...Gathering on the weekend , just few of neighbours ( full family) having BBQ is much much better than women arisan at home.
It's more pro and modern way if do the arisan in cafe/restaurant/club.
Sorry but as Tim pointed out I haven't yet learned to do the multi quote thingy...
So..yes it is obvious to me you came from there, now you often make a point of letting everyone know you ain't there now babe, 'cos you've 'made it'.. .
As for Australia, you have no idea..lots of people there would love to spin that little plastic cup and get a few extra bob to pay the bills etc...or how many are forced to eat baked beans, for dinner!
How come most of my neighbours drive cars, have at least one motor bike, and the kids get a private bus to school etc etc etc...I didn't see any of that back in Jagalan!
Fanatic religious meeting, crap..the majority were Catholic, some are Protestant and the remainder are Muslim, try and get that conservative and diverse group to resort to fanaticism...
"It's more pro and modern way if do the arisan in cafe/restaurant/club."
Arisan as I understand it, is traditional Jawa culture and not a modern phenomena, it is also as you should know a social event designed to encourage a sense of community and belonging.
Also apart from having a bit of a gossip, and lets be honest here you love that too, right.. it supports those who may need it and not just in monetary terms...besides, ain't no cafes here and not too many restos either...
BBQ's, first sensible thing you've said..an Aussie tradition!
I'm genuinely sorry you had such a bad experience in your local community?Arisan. :{
stt_cibubur
10-03-09, 00:23
if you said 'i made it' . Thank you but i don't feel that way, my point was about your post mentioning your neighbour always tell your wife anything what other people talk about and you said no body dare mess with her... Thats not very good statement! Its sound like gangster talk...
Fyi. There are plenty places in solo like solo gran, solo square, singosaren, lor in, ibis, novotel (my friend's husband was the Gm) until before xmas, and he relocated to Japan. There is saraswati bar in there with nice staff and music, good place to get together for arisan.
if you said 'i made it' . Thank you but i don't feel that way, my point was about your post mentioning your neighbour always tell your wife anything what other people talk about and you said no body dare mess with her... Thats not very good statement! Its sound like gangster talk...
Fyi. There are plenty places in solo like solo gran, solo square, singosaren, lor in, ibis, novotel (my friend's husband was the Gm) until before xmas, and he relocated to Japan. There is saraswati bar in there with nice staff and music, good place to get together for arisan.
Ye I do know those places..it's where most of Solo go for the free, Sat nights entertainment.
Solo Square does have one place at the front entrance that's make a great short black.
...but as I said there is none around here...
'(my friend's husband was the Gm)'.. there you go again, namedropping just without the name ;}
stt_cibubur
10-03-09, 08:41
'(my friend's husband was the Gm)'.. there you go again, namedropping just without the name ;}
AGAIN??? When last time I did name dropping, its always you saying, POMs, my wife did this, she did that.. dont you realize your post is useless for expat community. .. its doesn't make any sense at all. .. This is must be alcohol talk!
its sad really....
Mod, its OK if you want to delete this, at least I am happy to say it loud...
I agreed 100% with jawap... statement about your post, everytime someone dont agreed with you, you then start burning up and p!!!s3d and try to create another subject and find something to back up your story, no matter what.
I'll drop a name here :
Indonesian President Name is Susilo Bambang Yodhoyono, and he live nearby, you want to know that as well???
I feel I like talking to a kid!!! I better talk to my own kid..
His name is Stephane Bryer., my friend name is Erawaty. Happy??? and the previous GM ( from the soft opening around 1998 was Schneider). you want to know that as well???
We were the long stay guest in 1998 during riot. we stayed there 11 months but have 1 week break every month to go home to Jakarta. Anything else you want to know, just say it...being sacarstic is helping.
When is your next ARISAN then?? are you also going to take off your shoes..ooops sorry I meant flip flop and sit on the ceramic floor like those women too???:eek:
Name-dropping!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'Name dropping is the practice of mentioning important people or institutions into a conversation, story, song or other communication. The term often connotes an attempt to impress others and is usually regarded negatively. When used in argument it can be an example of the appeal to authority fallacy.
Purposes
Name dropping is used to position oneself within a social hierarchy. It is often used to create a sense of superiority by raising one's status. By implying (or directly asserting) a connection to people of high status, the name-dropper hopes to raise his or her own social status to a level closer to that of those whose names he or she has dropped, and thus elevate himself or herself above, or into, present company.
Name dropping can also be used to identify people with a common bond. By indicating the names of people one knows, one makes known his or her social circle, providing an opportunity for others with similar connections to relate.'
Now do you mengerti? ;}
stt_cibubur
10-03-09, 18:56
Name-dropping!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'Name dropping is the practice of mentioning important people or institutions into a conversation, story, song or other communication. The term often connotes an attempt to impress others and is usually regarded negatively. When used in argument it can be an example of the appeal to authority fallacy.
Purposes
Name dropping is used to position oneself within a social hierarchy. It is often used to create a sense of superiority by raising one's status. By implying (or directly asserting) a connection to people of high status, the name-dropper hopes to raise his or her own social status to a level closer to that of those whose names he or she has dropped, and thus elevate himself or herself above, or into, present company.
Name dropping can also be used to identify people with a common bond. By indicating the names of people one knows, one makes known his or her social circle, providing an opportunity for others with similar connections to relate.
wow...you did your homework..
when are you going to start remembering your own words and all the words you been saying?? You wrote lot lot of statement, but it seem it didnt get in your head at all... did you actually read it before post it?.. or just too much beers and smoke when you wrote it and contradicted all.
You sound more like kampung peoples. you said one thing and next minutes you said the opposite things.
Now do you mengerti? ;}
DO you undestand it yourself???
It looks like that the arisan is turning sour. May I suggest to you guys to cool down and not to revert to personal attacks or name calling. The arisan phenomena is worth a discussion and I wouldn't feel happy to do some deletion or close a thread which would start to go nowhere but in catfights. Thank you so much for helping keeping this thread alive. :);)
stt_cibubur
11-03-09, 08:25
No worry Atlantis..this is my last post for this thread. I dont know since when bule interesting in " Ibu ibu Arisan" and then become expat chat.
its should be in " Ladies Chat". unless....he is...hhmmm..no it can't be..never mind.
Happy Arisan Ladies!!!!!!!!!! I'll be arisan 24 hours with my utorrent :D
ttfn
simarkbotak
11-03-09, 12:00
Back to the topic..
It's a gathering of people once a month, where everyone puts money in the pot and names are pulled, who's name gets pulled takes home the pot, but will not have a chance to get it again until all other members have had their turn.
I think it is a good chance for people to mingle and meet other people.
that's my opinion.
And yes, I think other cultures would do well adopting this tradition.
Other cultures, including Western ones, have similar practices. In Guatemala, for example, this would be called a cuchuval.
Other cultures, including Western ones, have similar practices. In Guatemala, for example, this would be called a cuchuval.
Is that the same or is there any variation from the Indonesian arisan?
Here in Manado we don't use the term "Arisan" but prefer to call it "kaum" and it is tightly associated with the religion. We have "kaum ibu" and "kaum bapa" and a gathering is held every week in a different house of the "kolom". Every churches are divided in several "kolom" and you participate in your "kolom"'s "kaum" every week. Once a month there is a huge gathering with all the koloms of the church!
Being born a catholic but having changed my official religion to protestant when I married, the various koloms of the different jemaat are still confused about my case/faith and I am freed from participating to the "kaum bapa". However, I have a "kaum ibu" at my house from time to time, but few people attend, most fearing for their pants because of my rotties... :) I am very glad to have these two dogs...:rolleyes:
The purpose of the kaum is to pray together and to exchange the most spicy gossips. Everybody donate a bit of money (from 10K) to the organisation and money is to be borrowed to the one in need for organising marriage, funerals...etc or just to help untill the next salary.
It looks like that the arisan is turning sour. May I suggest to you guys to cool down and not to revert to personal attacks or name calling. The arisan phenomena is worth a discussion and I wouldn't feel happy to do some deletion or close a thread which would start to go nowhere but in catfights. Thank you so much for helping keeping this thread alive. :);)
Communication is difficult enough face to face.
Experts agree and estimate that only 10% or maby 20% of communication is verbal, at most!
The remainder relies upon non verbal communication such as facial expressions, general body language/posture and context etc..
It is easy then to understand why, particulary for non native English speakers that simply 'reading' one's word's posted in a forum can so easily be misconstrued. especially when combined with sarcastic Aussie humor {considerred not so funny by some, I concede}
So, this will be my last post here too...
I have actually refrained myself, despite constant provocation and believe me it took some serious effort to do so.
It's a shame that some people get confused and mixed up with my posts, between the serious, not so serious/sarcastic/nakaal, and sometimes just plain mischievous ;}
Salam to all...
So much praying, so little industry...
So much praying, so little industry...
In a radius of 500 meters of my house, I can count at least 7 official churches and 2 mosques. I don't even enumerates the number of Pendetas I know. Most of my neighbours are or have been or will be Pendetas. I am surrounded by Pendetas! :eek:
So much praying, so little industry...
Kantor immigrasi..
So much chatting, walking around looking lost, walking around looking for 'suckers' to help; just walking around, so much eating in the Warung next door, so much smoking outside...need I go on.
So little industry!
Kantor immigrasi..
So much chatting, walking around looking lost, walking around looking for 'suckers' to help; just walking around, so much eating in the Warung next door, so much smoking outside...need I go on.
So little industry!
Off topic:
Has anyone noticed the number of PNS "unemployed" in a Kantor Imigrasi. I am always very impressed by the number of them that seem to have no job to do. They have the uniform, but just stand here and try the best they can to avoid to have any "mission" to do. I love to be sarcastic with them, with them not even noticing it. I often come to them, make a joke and tell them something like "not to busy today?... Iya... take it easy, neh... you look a bit tired"... I just love it.:cool:
Off topic:
Has anyone noticed the number of PNS "unemployed" in a Kantor Imigrasi. I am always very impressed by the number of them that seem to have no job to do. They have the uniform, but just stand here and try the best they can to avoid to have any "mission" to do. I love to be sarcastic with them, with them not even noticing it. I often come to them, make a joke and tell them something like "not to busy today?... Iya... take it easy, neh... you look a bit tired"... I just love it.:cool:
Definately off topic to...
Isn't it interesting, how a thread starts and slowly progresses along it's way, changing mutating and evolving to wherever....
sometimes even like the famous Aussie Dodo bird... ;}
It is the natural outcome of a people who feel that the state has the obaligation to provide jobs. It is the natural outcome of a state that uses the civil service as social safety net. It is the natural outcome of a culture that values mass mediocrity over individual excellence.
It is the natural outcome of a people who feel that the government has an obligation to provide them with a job. It is the natural outcome of a state that uses the civil service as social safety net.
Do you think then that corruption comes about because the 'safety net' {Wages}, are too low?...I read somewhere once that this was a delibrate policy by Pak Suharto.
A serious question..
what does Govt do to maintain social order when, either an economy cannot provide enough work because it is too small compared to the size of the population, or grow quickly enough to support it's rapidly expanding population, or as is the case now in the current economic crisis, many people lose their jobs and none exist to replace them, or for whatever reasons, there is not enough work to go around whether meaningful or not?
Should Govt's intervene?.. and if not, how do we prevent society from slipping into anarchy?..
simarkbotak
11-03-09, 14:57
A serious question..
what does Govt do to maintain social order when, either an economy cannot provide enough work because it is too small compared to the size of the population, or grow quickly enough to support it's rapidly expanding population, or as is the case now in the current economic crisis, many people lose their jobs and none exist to replace them, or for whatever reasons, there is not enough work to go around whether meaningful or not?
Should Govt's intervene?.. and if not, how do we prevent society from slipping into anarchy?..
I wonder how many people must be debating this question ATM in the whole world.
Personally, IHNFI (i have no fkin idea);)
The case of Indonesia is different, I think. Since its birth, it has had i.) a bloated public sector, and ii.) difficulty attracting and creating the conditions for private sector jobs in sufficient numbers. My sense is that many of those in the Indonesian civil service are altogether unemployable outside the public sector due to lack of skills and "enthusiasm".
My sense is that many of those in the Indonesian civil service are altogether unemployable outside the public sector due to lack of skills and "enthusiasm".
Could not agree more...
A sure advice for a company owner who would like to retire early could be: "Tired to work? want to get retired earlier? Adopt a former PNS and fill for bankrupcy in the next 3 months!"
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