View Full Version : Are Indoesian people rude?
Im well aware that this may depend on what you perceive manners to be but im just getting sick of people here invading my space/pushing me out the way/staring at me/and asking ridiculous personal questions. Isnt ignoring somebody's presence rude? Many a time my wife's family don't even say hello or goodbye. Eating in local restaurants rarely involves excuse me or please pass my the sambal etc. My main pet hate is obviously the road where the emphasis is on doing what you want and the people behind have to just cope with it. Its a battle for space. Is there anything in the Indonesian language that translates to "please you go first" if so Ive never heard it. My belief is that manners are directly linked to consideration of other peoples needs. Being aware of other people around you and in this context Indonesians fall very short.
ive just re-read that and apologise for the mistakes. I hope its not rude to spell Indonesian wrong?
Well I kind of agree with the personal space issue, but the rest i never experience them. Just wondering, what kind of people do you surround yourself with?
travellingchez
08-03-12, 09:00
The fact that your wife's family don't say hello or goodbye is rude my Indonesian standards. It's customary to shake hands and greet everyone when entering a house or leaving.
I share the same frustrations as your self, lowey. However, I think we have to be careful not to forget Indonesia is a vastly different place to where we may come from and as such we must accept there are going to be adjustments that we have to make. (My motorbike riding skills are far superior to what they once were and I am more elbows and hips when lining for the check-out than I used to be) There are certain limits though, and when I feel a person has been particularly inconsiderate, I shall let them know.
thanks travellingchez ill let them know you think theyre rude. and power13 maybe nobodys interested what size of member you have?
I try hard to ignore this as best possible, but of course as a westerner it does affect you. I think it's all about the way children are raised here, there is no real effort in teaching them manners or discipline. So to push in a waiting queue, or to constantly blow cigarette smoke into your face, speak on mobile phones in movie theatres, and the constant invasion of privacy, I think are all very rude action regardless of cultural backgrounds. What adds to this is that Indonesians tend to avoid confrontation, so for them to speak up about an obviously rude action, rarely happens, so I people are either oblivious of their wrong doings, or know they will most likely get away with it and continue to do it.
thanks peteD perfectly said. that's exactly what ive been observing. parents dont teach their kids how to say please or thank you. being malu is seen as an excuse for everything in fact almost encouraged. the key is the lack of confrontation. if people aren't made aware of their wrong doings they live in ignorance. ill try not to compare this to the corruption problems aswell.
sweetmaria
08-03-12, 09:41
Being an Indonesian, I would like to apologize the way people here behaves.
1. On the road. There's no such things as being patient on the road. The police don't care or even they're already frustrated with the daily condition that they're facing. My husband used to hate it, but now, he make sure that those who violates his space will stay behind him.
2. Eating. Being a local, it actually disturbing for me too when all of a sudden an arm of someone that I don't know passed on my plate to get something that i could easy reach for them.
3. saying hello or good bye. If your wife is Javanese, then it's quite rude to all of a sudden come into one's house without saying anything or leaving without good byes. My grandparents houses (both from my paternal and maternal) were in the rural Central Java, Cawas, Klaten and Wonogiri. Whenever I stayed there, I always heard people shouting their hellos (it's traditional kampung house) before they come in or if they're relatives, they'll shout as they come in. and saying good byes were a MUST. You might want to point it out to your wife about this. It always makes me feel like there's a thief coming into my house if they come and leave without saying anything.
4. Asking ridiculous questions. Normally what they'll ask would be around, "how many children do you have" etc etc etc. My ex partner got so tired of it too. He used to ask exactly the same question the person asked him instead of answering the question. After sometime, it stops.
5. As for staring or even shouted out "bule bule ada bule", I had the same experience during the first couple of months of my relationship with my-then-bf-now-hubby. I happened to know who shouted that. I went to their house with my mom and the local Pak RT and demanded those teens to apologize. It stopped immediately. For staring, my husband would simply stared back at them. Give them their own medicine. Even laughed at them even though there's nothing funny.
I think that's all from me. Sorry, if the culture shock makes you feel uncomfy. I hope that your wife would be able to help you through the transition as I help my husband.
thanks sweetmaria understanding this cultural shock definitely helps your partner. i myself employ similar sort of tactics. i like to use my mirrors to block the idiots on the bike trying to get passed. i call it cockblocking. i stop by people at traffic lights to confront them and laugh at how scared they look. i think its nearly impossible to annoy Indonesians into a response. My new awful experience is in the swimming pool where the locals think they can use the place for a wash. spitting/bending over the side of the pool and washing like monkeys/ and even cleaning their teeth. fantastic i want to send a few of these locals to Manchester England and do a documentary to see what would happen to them. priceless.
sweetmaria
08-03-12, 10:32
well, what can i say?? I remembered at one point, when I was my school's swimming athlete, my parents demanded that the training be in another public swimming pool or I was not allowed to join the team again because I went home with fleas all over my head. YUCK! I was in junior high at that time.
So, reading your comments above, it doesn't surprise me at all. In Jakarta however, they're polite enough to use to washroom instead of the pool.
Well I kind of agree with the personal space issue, but the rest i never experience them. Just wondering, what kind of people do you surround yourself with? I am wondering also,what kind of people do you surround yourself with?Sorry to hear all your frustration,seems like cultural shock for you.About your wife's family to not say hello or good bye,this is something strange for Indonesian.I never have that experience,just like SweetMaria mentioned, we Indonesian like to give a bit shout when we meet or saying good bye.Indonesian tends to be friendly although sometime getting "over" friendly and asking this and that,but you could answer it straight to the point politely with smile.Like,sorry,I am not wanting to talk about it.Staring at you,I am agree with SweetMaria ,stare them back and smile.And on the Queue line,I usually talk straight away,just please line up,we still need to learn this a lot,but hopefully slowly will go there.I have same experience like this alot in Shanghai.But what becoming frustration for me as women in Indonesia actually is the knowledge of Indonesian man.Sorry to share it here,but I think still part of Indonesian culture(problem anyway).The understanding of "ladies first" is still long way,although they are young educated,professional man seems not thinking this yet.It happens in the office,lift building and some plaza.Again,mobile phone in the cinema/movie theatre,seems they are young and rich but not wanting to learn to learn good attitude.Perhaps it is in their mindset.Yes we are Indonesian still need to learn lots of stuff for better future
sweetmaria
08-03-12, 10:56
@bumblebee, your new paragraphs don't work huh? use < br > < p > (no space though) no create new paragraph. It was discussed here http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/22398-Edit-Thread
The pillion on the bike in front of me just a short while ago threw his half empty bottle of coke and plastic bag full of wrappers nonchalantly over his shoulder toward the side of the road, the bag and bottle both purging themselves of their contents across the footpath. I guess he could have been displaying manners by not throwing them at me.
icantfindid
08-03-12, 11:06
One of my pet peeves is seeing those who would smoke around babies/kids, like there is no other place to light their cigarettes. I always managed to volunteer to give them a piece of my mind. And this is coming from a smoker.
One of my pet peeves is seeing those who would smoke around babies/kids, like there is no other place to light their cigarettes. I always managed to volunteer to give them a piece of my mind. And this is coming from a smoker.This I agree with fully. I am also a smoker, and always stay away from babies, kids, and in general others who dont smoke. I dont think my smoking should efect others. But in general here nobody cares at all. They smoke anywhere, even come into your house, and just start smoking, I never smoke in my house.I think a lot of the pushing and que jumping comes from the way people act on the road. They are just the same on foot.
please dont try and belittle what im saying by passing it off as just the people i hang around with bumblebee. i live in wonosobo which is a far better example of indonesian life than jakarta. ive travelled to many places around indonesia and experienced exactly the same lack of cosideration. ref tangles i got cut up in purwokerto the other day by a car who then throw his cigarette out the window and hit my bike. i kindly smiled (thanks bumblebee) and calmly told him he was a twat.
icantfindid
08-03-12, 11:26
I think a lot of the pushing and que jumping comes from the way people act on the road. They are just the same on foot. I tell them to back off when they start pushing or just give them 'a look' and they usually get it. Whenever they cut me in a line, I simply tell them the line starts back there and not in front of me. Hey, if their parents didn't teach them these, somebody needs to.
sweetmaria
08-03-12, 11:32
I tell them to back off when they start pushing or just give them 'a look' and they usually get it. Whenever they cut me in a line, I simply tell them the line starts back there and not in front of me. Hey, if their parents didn't teach them these, somebody needs to. Painful, but true. Most local parents don't even bother to teach their children to thank and apologize let alone queue.
I usually tapped on the person's back, and tell him, move away, this is my turn. If they don't go, I make my voice louder and repeat louder everytime (I'm trained to do that without rising my pitch).
What is so annoying is when they take it for granted those that are kind enough to hold the door for them. GOSH! I once shouted at a woman in a high end shopping mall, "HEY BITCH! My husband is not a doorman. Hope that you'll bump your fake nose next time you go through a door." because my husband was kind enough to hold the door for me then she was behind me acting as if she were the Queen of Sheba.
icantfindid
08-03-12, 11:37
Painful, but true. Most local parents don't even bother to teach their children to thank and apologize let alone queue. I usually tapped on the person's back, and tell him, move away, this is my turn. If they don't go, I make my voice louder and repeat louder everytime (I'm trained to do that without rising my pitch). What is so annoying is when they take it for granted those that are kind enough to hold the door for them. GOSH! I once shouted at a woman in a high end shopping mall, "HEY BITCH! My husband is not a doorman. Hope that you'll bump your fake nose next time you go through a door." because my husband was kind enough to hold the door for me then she was behind me acting as if she were the Queen of Sheba. I don't get too bothered yet to get upset for these things, but I've held the door for others before and they would pass through as if I was their doorgirl and not even a thank you or a smile. Even a doorman deserve a thank you. I'd usually say 'kembali!' (you're welcome!) These are little things, and yes, can be upsetting to some who expect common courtesy but I wouldn't loose my head over it.
It's kinda tough not to think it's specific to your surroundings, lowey, because one of the most basic Indonesian courtesies is to ask for permission when one arrives at other's residence and for leave when one departs. We in Jakarta even have a word for the act of coming and going without announcing yourself: nyelonong.
As for the rest, I really think our problem is because our society today is neither here nor there. We have largely gotten rid of the old feudal courtesies, but we haven't adopted modern democratic etiquette.
icantfindid
08-03-12, 12:04
As for the rest, I really think our problem is because our society today is neither here nor there. We have largely gotten rid of the old feudal courtesies, but we haven't adopted modern democratic etiquette. May be true, but basic etiquette is timeless I'd think. It's like the bare minimum to say a thank you / an apology appropriately, nothing rocket science. My observation is quite limited of course, but I'm more inclined towards how it is a somewhat acceptable behavior in Indonesia to not even meet the bare minimum thus encouraging the extension of such behavior.
May be true, but basic etiquette is timeless I'd think. It's like the bare minimum to say a thank you / an apology appropriately, nothing rocket science. My observation is quite limited of course, but I'm more inclined towards how it is a somewhat acceptable behavior in Indonesia to not even meet the bare minimum thus encouraging the extension of such behavior. Here's an interesting article about "thank you" in Indonesia.
http://bahasakita.com/2011/05/03/to-thank-or-not-to-thank-in-indonesian/
icantfindid
08-03-12, 12:25
Here's an interesting article about "thank you" in Indonesia. http://bahasakita.com/2011/05/03/to-thank-or-not-to-thank-in-indonesian/ Interesting indeed. It didn't even cross my mind once that saying terima kasih is of western value. What's your take on this? Would you say it's true or somewhat true?
I was so busy reading my Mac died haha
that article is interesting but consideration extends far further than please and thank you. its just nice to have people except your presence with acknowledgements and asking instead of barking orders. Same experience as sweetmarie? i often hold doors open for people without getting a thank you and get many doors shut in my face. now im not employed as a doorman for indomaret so is this seen as a service that is taken for granted as a community responsibility? i just think indonesians have very stiff necks and bending them to be aware of whats around them is just not possible. maybe aerobics is the answer? i think injun made a good point as if you look at the old traditions theres lots of emphasis on asking permission etc which seems to be used very sparingly nowadays mainly to give respect to anyone in a uniform. i blame the dutch.
Well its rude if we don't "permisi" when visiting someone but at least I do "permisi" and Shake Hands with the host when coming and going time... Plus I also open my shoes infront of the door before entering their house because entering someones house with shoes is considered rude and impolite... :)
Blame the Dutch ???? The Dutch left at 1949 ???!!!! Also, they don't like uniforms at all.So should I blame the English for any wrongdoing in Australia, Malaysia, India, etc. etc.?
Not sure it matters where someone lives to experience the art of being ignored when someone enters the house. I live in East Java and have experienced this many times. Even some close relatives have totally ignored me when they visit. Not even a smile. After awhile, I told my wife they were no longer welcome and I didn't want them to visit. I told her it was the height of rudeness and why should someone that rude be allowed in the house to totally ignore me. Most people are very friendly, but there are a few that seem to have missed even the most basic of manners and civility.We just returned from a short visit to Singapore on Air Asia and had to take the bus from the plane to the terminal. There was a young woman who was obviously pregnant with a young toddler. No one on the bus would give her a seat. When I got up to give her mine, a guy in his 20's sat down. I told him the seat was for the pregnant woman. He just ignored me and no one else on the bus offered her a seat. Do people really have to be taught such things? Doesn't common sense and decency ever enter the picture?
sweetmaria
08-03-12, 14:26
......................... i blame the dutch. errr... my husband is a Dutchman. I have to keep this thread away from him.
You should have pulled him out of his seat. I would have.
errr... my husband is a Dutchman. I have to keep this thread away from him. Hi Maria.. Apa khabar ? he he he he
sweetmaria
08-03-12, 14:47
Hi Maria.. Apa khabar ? he he he he Hi Roy. :) How're you??? are you going to join us for this saturday evening's The Artist?? Please vote for Plaza Senayan ya. :D :D
Hi Roy. :) How're you??? are you going to join us for this saturday evening's The Artist?? Please vote for Plaza Senayan ya. :D :D Ok Cool... Give my regards to your Hubby ya... :)
Sorry to make a flippant comment about all you tulip lovers out there. i sincerely apologise. I love the dutch people especially the ones in Amsterdam as they are always so friendly. But please explain why the Indonesians have made it so difficult for foreigners to work in this country since the dutch left?
Sorry to make a flippant comment about all you tulip lovers out there. i sincerely apologise. I love the dutch people especially the ones in Amsterdam as they are always so friendly. But please explain why the Indonesians have made it so difficult for foreigners to work in this country since the dutch left?
Maybe they should just make it difficult for the dutch to come here.
bow chicka wow wow
08-03-12, 16:40
A lot of people are rude, whether in Indonesia or not. Rudeness is not a trait that belongs to Indonesians only. I'm Indonesian and I can honestly say I've been brought up to have manners.
I'm currently in the UK and I find some people's behaviour quite appalling.
- some people would push you inside a train carriage when you're trying to make your way out.
- some people would smoke and walk at the same time, leaving a train of cigarette on you first thing in the morning. I find this rude.
- some people would walk and type on their smartphones at the same time, slowing everyone down behind them.
- I saw a man pushed a blind man aside because the blind man was 'in his way'.
- I was in a grocery store at a not so nice area and a kid walked up to me and kicked my shin whilst the mother watched.
There are so many other examples I can give, but I'm sure you get the point.
icantfindid
08-03-12, 17:41
I Agree, Bow. Rudeness wasn't invented by Indonesians, isn't a trait that belongs to Indonesians exclusively, and with common knowledge, your examples should suffice in supporting your argument. No objection there.
The questions to your argument though, can we pass "some people's behavior" as the common practice? Do the British view those misbehaving as acceptable as the way Indonesians do? Do those examples you presented considered the norm in British standard? Are those what most British parents would pass on to their children? I'm just trying to be objective here. I mean, some people would push you there? Don't most people do that all day here? 'Some' isn't 'most' and I think the OP is referring to the latter.
Perhaps it's the frequency and the number of occurrence that's the issue. And as has been mentioned by the OP, it's simply their personal observation. While it's true rudeness can be found everywhere. I do feel that I experience and witness rudeness much more often in Indonesia. Perhaps Indonesia isn't the worst offender, but it isn't utopia either. If it was to be ranked, I wouldn't put Indonesians in big cities of Indonesia as the most polite people in the world. Is it a representation of Indonesians as a whole? No. But when one experiences Indonesia in its big cities (Denpasar, Jakarta, etc) it will be the impression one gets.
Think people in other big cities like New York, Shanghai, Beijing, Paris, Rome, etc. can be as rude... a capital isn't really representative for a country.
naughtygab
08-03-12, 18:32
lowey .. even as an Indonesian, it's very annoying to see those kinda people. but i did my rough survey .. and there are so many root cause that made people act like that..1. lack of teaching at home. some parents found that if their kids dare to kick someone's leg to be funny or being greedy at the table is 'appreciated' as enjoying the food. and maybe these parents were also never taught how to behave. mostly these people came from lower social class... if they are rich now.. they must have the lower quality in the previous years. manners is not something that could be installed in someone's mind over nite. 2. it's the mentality in general of Indonesian to be reluctant to wait, but enjoy when someone wait for them. so if you see someone who enter the lift before other people in the lift leave the box, don't be too amazed. or when you are on plane, even before the plane stop,some people might have already open their belt and open the bagagge cabin and take out the bags ..and they could not wait to get out from the plane ASAP, even tho they will need to wait for their baggage later ... I see it like animal who would fight for food , tho in the end they will get the same portion , but they want to get it first with the thought .. 'jangan jangan keabisan' the word you are looking for is ' duluan deh" .. yeah it's very rare to be used in daily life. in your case, some indonesian claimed them selves as a shy person esp people who could not speak to people who speak other language than their language. i have friends in the office who would run away everytime someone from HQ visited our place and try to talk to them. ..
Yeah bow your quite right to point out that you do get some very rude people in england too. But on these issues you do have to generalise and for me indonesia is on a different scale.In england people know the rules and those that are not applying manners are usually stressed from the pressures of the intense lifestyle especially in london or are a sub culture of the english society with bad attitudes. These latter people are often called scalys or in scotland neds. They generally dress like they are going to do sport but never seem to get around to it. Be careful especially when they are drunk and learn to recognise them as just eye contact can be enough to send them into overdrive. Coming from manchester indonesians often ask me with jealousy about going to old trafford. But football matches are often full of scalys or people releasing stress. Can be very aggressive. Thanks for reminding me why i didnt want to settle back in england. I could put up with all the other stuff in indonesia i just wish they wouldnt apply the same competitive space battling inconsiderate competition for space when they were driving.
bow chicka wow wow
08-03-12, 19:23
That was actually the point I forgot to include in my previous post; whilst some Indonesians CAN be pretty rude, generally there is no agression. Unfortunately the same can not be said about England...
Sorry to make a flippant comment about all you tulip lovers out there. i sincerely apologise. I love the dutch people especially the ones in Amsterdam as they are always so friendly. But please explain why the Indonesians have made it so difficult for foreigners to work in this country since the dutch left? LOL! The rest of Holland think Amsterdamers are pompous asses.
@bumblebee, your new paragraphs don't work huh? use < br > < p > (no space though) no create new paragraph. It was discussed here http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/22398-Edit-Thread.Thank you ,SweetMaria.I think you right,I meant to make new paragraph.
lowey .. even as an Indonesian, it's very annoying to see those kinda people. but i did my rough survey .. and there are so many root cause that made people act like that..1. lack of teaching at home. some parents found that if their kids dare to kick someone's leg to be funny or being greedy at the table is 'appreciated' as enjoying the food. and maybe these parents were also never taught how to behave. mostly these people came from lower social class... if they are rich now.. they must have the lower quality in the previous years. manners is not something that could be installed in someone's mind over nite. 2. it's the mentality in general of Indonesian to be reluctant to wait, but enjoy when someone wait for them. so if you see someone who enter the lift before other people in the lift leave the box, don't be too amazed. or when you are on plane, even before the plane stop,some people might have already open their belt and open the bagagge cabin and take out the bags ..and they could not wait to get out from the plane ASAP, even tho they will need to wait for their baggage later ... I see it like animal who would fight for food , tho in the end they will get the same portion , but they want to get it first with the thought .. 'jangan jangan keabisan' the word you are looking for is ' duluan deh" .. yeah it's very rare to be used in daily life. in your case, some indonesian claimed them selves as a shy person esp people who could not speak to people who speak other language than their language. i have friends in the office who would run away everytime someone from HQ visited our place and try to talk to them. ...
Yup,sad but true.Although in some fact that unpolite act NOT only coming from family has lower social class.They knew that they do something not nice but LIKE to enjoy being"I am Somebody"
bow chicka wow wow
08-03-12, 20:14
I Agree, Bow. Rudeness wasn't invented by Indonesians, isn't a trait that belongs to Indonesians exclusively, and with common knowledge, your examples should suffice in supporting your argument. No objection there.
The questions to your argument though, can we pass "some people's behavior" as the common practice? Do the British view those misbehaving as acceptable as the way Indonesians do? Do those examples you presented considered the norm in British standard? Are those what most British parents would pass on to their children? I'm just trying to be objective here. I mean, some people would push you there? Don't most people do that all day here? 'Some' isn't 'most' and I think the OP is referring to the latter.
I said 'some' out of kindness. In business areas, you'd get people who'd actually form queues out of the way from the train doors, but you'd get pushed 95% of the time otherwise. If I go to a Nando's, you'd get wily children running around causing havoc and screaming their lungs out. Whilst on the other hand, if you go to a fairly nice restaurant, the children are well behaved. So yes, it really depends on where you are. England countryside is nice and the people can be quite friendly. But at the same time, English can come across quite detached and cold.
Behaviour of kids and youths here plays a big part in my decision making process of whether or not I'd like a child, and whether or not I'd raise a child here in the UK.
And lowey, I personally think there is no excuse to rudeness.
Righto. So we the Dutch are to be held responsible for the way certain Indonesians misbehave? Hm, I take it we are then also to blame for the fact that the roads are ****, that this country has the best police money can buy (pun intended), and that they still can't draught a decent pint? I guess I'll just plea guilty: it was all the Dutch, all along, always, and now on the 17th of August I am afraid to leave my house.
Anyhoo, I think it is wrong to generalise. Most people in Indonesia are pretty decent people and agreeable enough on a personal level (provided they don't talk behind your back), but things change when Indonesians come together in a group or in a crowd. For reasons utterly infathomable, Indonesians have to be part of something. They join the club for the kind of car they drive, the area they live in, and they always have to have stickers saying what amusement parks they have been to so as to also be 'part' of that team. I do believe that an Indonesian encountering a queue of people at a bank will ask about membership requirements.
Things get hairy when Indonesians are where they think they cannot be recognised. Traffic is one instance, the mall another. Put a perfectly decent Indonesian gentleman behind the wheel of a car with tinted windows, and he turns into a perfect fiend. Let him wear a helmet with a mirroring visor, and he becomes Evil Incarnate. It is a stark contrast with the seemingly benign and polite Indonesian you encounter at work. How it works is something that, I guess, will forever be shrouded in mystery. But it keeps things fresh to find ways to get the better of 'em, and car repair is cheap, so why should I care? Bring it on. (Evil laughter ensues)
thanks matt first person to make me chuckle. Also why do Indonesians seem to love ceremonys especially if they can shut down roads wave flags and hand out plastic gold trophys?
Interesting indeed. It didn't even cross my mind once that saying terima kasih is of western value. What's your take on this? Would you say it's true or somewhat true? I was so busy reading my Mac died hahaI think it's true. I didn't say too many thanks when I was in Indonesia, because I wasn't taught to. My parents only began to say thank you this and that after prolonged exposure to me in the states. The thinking was that you don't say thanks to somebody who is just doing a job he's paid to do. Unfortunately there's also the thinking that being too polite means being scared or submissive, which lowers yourself to others and invites them to walk all over you. This is especially true on the streets.
However, there's an interesting phenomenon that I observed a while back, and I don't know if it's still going on. On occasions people used to be extra, extra polite when visiting a stranger as a means to show one's culture and education, and at the same time gauge the host's quality. If the host is similarly cultured and educated, the courtesies would be promptly reciprocated. It is almost like a competition on who can be more polite.
I remember my parents came visiting my room teacher in high school, to apologize because I misplaced my buku raport. She was stressed because she thought she lost it; in fact it was still at home with me along with many stuff at our old house (we were moving). As was customary we removed our shoes when we entered their house, but in the height of courtesies the husband actually brought our shoes back to us with his own hands, insisting that we kept them on. The guy was no babu, he just recently finished his master's abroad on a scholarship. It was his way of showing that despite his small house, he was well raised and came from a good family.
Get that a lot; they insist I keep my shoes on. Convenient but also a bit embarrassing...
It has been my experience that people are people. Circumstances of living can make people act in certain ways regardless of their nationality and some people are naturally nice while other are naturally assholes, such is life.
benederlof
09-03-12, 00:13
Sorry to make a flippant comment about all you tulip lovers out there. i sincerely apologise. I love the dutch people especially the ones in Amsterdam as they are always so friendly. But please explain why the Indonesians have made it so difficult for foreigners to work in this country since the dutch left? It is difficult in any country to get a job if you are a foreigner, regardless if the dutch were there before.I think from all the expats the dutch are treated in Indonesia the best, people still remember the good things the dutch did for them when the dutch were here i.e. plenty of work, law and order, dicipline, good roads for those times, (a lot of roads are still from the dutch era) albeit to small now for todays traffic.
I got this from my father in law in the kampung and where the people are polite and considered, in contrast to the big cities like Jstar mentioned, where everybody is for himself and god for all.
hendry_ohe
09-03-12, 00:29
Lowey, maybe the reason ur wife family members do not say anything to you when they met you, coz they do not how to speak english???
In my experience, not in Indonesia particularly, the more educated a person the more polite he/she will be. Except for the Nepalese as I find everyone there extremely friendly and courteous.
naughtygab
09-03-12, 08:59
a bit OOT : i kinda find it confusing when people still blame the dutch colonialism for the indonesia 'unmannered 'attitude. based on history books that we had in school yes it sounds awful .. but how do we know that for sure? as i learned that the history of indonesia circa 1965 were twisted by some people.
so there's also a posibility that those 350 years under Dutch colonialism was not as bad as what the books said IMO. But i remember ( i've told this in other thread believe) when i was a kid, the hatred feeling toward dutch people ( or dutch speaking people , including me at that time) was build by the school books.
wisnupurwanto
09-03-12, 10:17
I’m interested with all your statement where you always put a label of “Indonesian” to anything does not satisfy you. The fact that you have been living there for 3 years – and from what I read seem almost like a hell – and you don’t know what actually going on – is not just a cultural shock or language barrier - clearly indicate something wrong – and in many cases is not one side story.
I do not know exactly where you live in wonosobo – a small city in central Java where the people are considered nice and polite. I lived for 3 months in small village of wonosobo long-long time when I was student. Typical as many other place in Indonesia they are closely connected as a community. I can say all the people in that village and other villages knew me well just after few days we’re there – lovely, everything was very positive.
Yes, it was long time ago. Everything may change. Sure, many of them not very well educated;sure most of them do not know western customaries. But, it also should be understood that they have their own sensitivity which shall be respected too.
I hope I’m wrong, but I’m worry you’re being punished and or not welcome by the community – this case may happen to “foreigner” (does not always mean expat).
It is not necessarily in small city – even in the nice housing complex of suburban Jakarta, I knew an expat (not necessary to mention his nationality as I believe what he did does not represent his country or nationality) had been put persona non grata status, and everybody in the complex will be very happy if he leave the complex.
I was probably the only person who still has occasional chat with him. I still remember well his impression that all people in the complex are barbarian, idiot, lazy, intolerance, rude, uncivilised ect.
In other side, the people has almost similar list of disappointment about him ie: Arrogant, never join community meeting, never contribute anything to the community, live in isolation, intolerance, rude, racist, but the worst thing that I believe is the main problem– he like to use the words “ Indonesian goblok, pemalas, idiot to his helper and driver. And these words quickly spread in the community.
The word “Indonesian” combined with something negative has very different impact if spelled by foreigner. Being Indonesian, I have no problem to say Indonesia bangsa pemalas openly, but might cost million USD damage if said by foreigner openly. In Batam, the words Indonesian goblog has triggered a big riot among shipyard worker.
One interesting Indonesian wise words “tidak ada asap tanpa api” is exist not for nothing.
Living in different culture is a challenge but also an opportunity to develop and to contribute more, not only for one side.
Lowey, maybe the reason ur wife family members do not say anything to you when they met you, coz they do not how to speak english??? I believe that it may be a reason, especially if Lowey leaves in a kampung. In my experience, if I go with my wife in any kampung in the Minahasa, people tend to great me with a respectuous smile, a nod of the head or anything similar. They don't talk to me out of shyness. They address my wife... untill the second I start to speak in bahasa Manado. Then they give her a royal miss and act as if she was transparent. A bit like what lowey may feel perhaps. As soon as they get that I speak the linguo and that they can communicate without fear, then the attitude radically changes. I have the hardest time to get away from attention.
I don't have time to read the whole tread... Sorry if I'm out of the conversation.
I just want add that my family in law is also like that, In 2 year by living with them, I never hear anyone telling any "Hi".
"Bye" or "aku pergi" is only tell by the kid. When the parent left, they never say anything.
Same for any "courtoisie", never hear of no one say pleae of thank.
I saw lot of oposite around me, but very rarely in other chinese family. I can't tell in which level it's a cultural thing or not. I can just tell I can feel my mother in law is dying of jealousy by seeing the way I treat my wife ; )
One of the thing I really appreciate with my inlaws is that when my wife and I told them what are the important things for me they've done incredible efforts to make sure that I am not hurted by any cultural difference.
I can't remember of one time in the past 9 years when one of my inlaws have entered the house without greeting me, have exited the house without saying a loud "Permisi, so mo pigi dulu", have borrowed anything without explicitely asking me or my wife (and in this case having explicitely asked her to inform me about it), have not say a loud "Makase" for anything borrowed or given...etc. It simply never happened.
If there is any word meaning the exact opposite as rude, it would fit them on the matter, especially my mother in law. She may appear uneducated (I don't think she's finished the SD) at times but rude is certainly not what qualifies her. Neither most of the people around me.
There are of course some rude arseholes here, but I don't think that they are in a higher proportion than the one we meet in Europe, the US or anywhere else. They are just different. I can be VERY rude. So they can. It's just a matter of cultural differences and the way we percieve rudeness I think.
I made it a rule at home - no texting at the dinner table .
One of the wifes good friend came out to dinner with us recently and didnt stop texting the whole time , so I sent her an sms to please pass me the salt :attention:
(I broke my own personal rule , but only to prove a point )
Amusing discussion, in a couple of ways.
Just some comments on what was said above.
I think you can indeed not generalize, ill-mannered inlaws don't represent Indonesia as a whole of course, I have a similar set of inlaws as OP, but find enough politesse with others. Maybe these inlaws all have different reasons, but in my own environment I think they are behaving different because I'm an alien, associated with all kind of presumptions they have about us as "bule". So be it, I couldn't care less, but if being liked by inlaws is a goal for you, better focus on the ones you have a good time with and forget the rest.
Everyone seems to have different opinions about what politeness is and what can be called rude. I bet a lot of the issues are simply based on misunderstandings. Some locals may find it rude and unpolite if you sweetly pat a kids on the head, a lot of westerns do this automatically. There are examples the other way around as well of course. I never thought it is unpolite to slow down to handle your mobile phone, but one of the posters sees this even as rude, so you see.
That the dutch would have had somehow an effect on the local rudeness is amusing. It not only greatly overestimates the effect that the Dutch had but it somehow implies that the Indonesian culture itself would be poorly founded and rooted and easily influenced by outsiders. If you look around in nearby countries, you will see that Indonesia is one of the countries that has been able to preserve a lot of their culture, including their own rudeness and politeness. If the the rudeness would have imported here from another culture, why not blame the Chinese in stead, they have been here for thousands of years and have had a much deeper influence in Indonesian values than any other alien culture?
What I missed so far is the dimension of authority, which is very obvious in Indonesian culture and which seems to be at the base of any form of respect. I find Indonesians super polite to the ones that have a higher social role in their opinion. In some cases I think they would even prefer to kneel down and kiss the feet of such person, or walk backwards bending to the floor when they say goodbey, as in the old days. So social role, but also gender, age, religion and even identity will affect the proportion of the rudeness or politeness. Being a non-believing young bule, you aren't always automatically as the top of society of course.
I clearly notice differences myself when I'm accompanied by someone who is generally regarding as of higher status, doors are kept open, people even seem to bend or trying to make a gesture that looks like it and they stop playing with their phones. Even in traffic I notice big differences between being driven in a new Mercedes or driving my own old Honda jazz , A brand new Mercedes means status and other cars almost seem to bend when I'm in the position to drive by in one:)
As for traffic, I dont think anyone is behaving the same way in his car as in direct contact, we all feel more distant from one another when sitting in a car, this despite the Mercedes example, but it explains why we behave like we do. Even the locals dont seem to suffer from "malu" in traffic, probably for the same reasons.
As for the national rudeness, I don't think Jakarta is a good example for the rest of the country, people here are far more individualistic and driven by materialistic goals, they might still observe rules of politeness in their work, but in social life they behave pretty much the same as people in any other big city.
If you live in Jakarta you simply deal with it, there is no point is expecting the rest of Jakarta to change to your standards of politeness. You could continue opening doors for others, but once you realize that they will see you as a servant for doing so, and give you the suitable response, you gladly shut it in their face as well next time.
lonelydragon
09-03-12, 16:11
Hi Lowey,
Sorry to hear about your problems, I'm an Indonesian and have to say was a bit surprised to see about your problems. I would like to share some thoughts about your issues.
Firstly the problem with staring, stupid questions, etc. I have to admit I used to do the staring things, that is because it was rare to see Foreigners. And while I'm thinking, "Wow a foreigner, I wonder where he/she's going, etc." I unconsciously keep on staring at the person which I think kind of rude however I'm already gone past that habbit, so perhaps that is what happens to you?
As for the bad tabble manners, I was thinking perhaps your wife's familly don't know how to communicate with you? I mean perhaps they're having trouble speaking english or some things? Because most Indonesian will ask permission before taking some things that is on other people's table. The common words they'd use are, "Permisi..." "Maaf" it's the common word for "Excuse me." in english.
But I'm glad to hear that you had found ways to overcome your problems, stay strong because most Indonesian is mild mannered. :)
What about eating with hands ? Is it considered as rude ?
Not in my book for sure.
Or I am glad to display some "rudeness" at times. If anyone has found something more practical than hands to eat rice with cakaleng fish he/she should tell it to me. It must be a good fun to see someone battling with cuttleries to eat it.
Well my mother used to say to me (and I am English) fingures were made before forks.
Many people all aroung the world use hands to eat. How can you eat a spare rib with a knife and fork.
Some food even tastes better when eaten with hands... :)
What about eating with hands ? Is it considered as rude ?
I always eat cookies with a knife and fork... haha
Certain traditional Indonesian cuisines are meant to be eaten with the hands
bow chicka wow wow
09-03-12, 18:53
Well my mother used to say to me (and I am English) fingers were made before forks.
Your mother's a very wise woman.
wow its still going on. good points by pippo. but all i can say is that everyone on the roads must feel far more superior than me as they keep pushing me out the way. maybe i should get myself a darkened visor or a big mercedes.
Sometimes I feel that being humble also can win peoples respect here... I usually feel that giving way to people whose in a hurry also gives me some personal satisfaction... Or maybe giving an old lady behind me a chanve to be ahead of me in ATM line is also personally satisfying...
But for people who act as "All Knowing" and looks down on other people of course it would be difficult for other people to give resoect to them and most of the time causes friction...
i blame the dutch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmc42kZrBc
@Jstar: Very funny song buddy... he he he he he... :)
Anyway how are you ? Long time no see... :)
very good jstar. where did you fid him from. he has many interesting points.
Hey Roy, not too bad. Having some issues with Broco and Aton. Will tell you later.
@lowey: was a popular song on the 'alternative' Dutch radio stations early eighties. We thought it was pretty funny too...
One of my pet peeves is seeing those who would smoke around babies/kids, like there is no other place to light their cigarettes. I always managed to volunteer to give them a piece of my mind. And this is coming from a smoker.
Not gross enough, I've seen a grandpa in his 50s or 60s blowing his cigar smoke at his baby grandson, right before his also smoking grandma who just looked at it. Multiple times. I've aimed my phone camera at them to record it, but it was my first day with the thing and I missed pushing the "Play" button which I assumed to be at the same place as it was with my old cellphone. The guy was an ashhole.
You should have pulled him out of his seat. I would have.
I agree that the guy Kimdub mentioned deserved a punch in the face, but doing this might mean playing with fire with your immigration status...
As for the Dutch, blaming them would serve as alcoholic drink for all of Indonesia's woes: it feels nice, but won't change a thing if not worsen it.
icantfindid
11-03-12, 13:56
I'm a little late here, been enjoying my weekend away from the computer, needed that. And I haven't read all the other posts so I apologize if I might repeat what has been mentioned.
I wouldn't elaborate how rude Indonesians are to me, not my place, and I'd probably take a beating as well if I did, for absolutely nothing. I'll talk in general, from my own perception. Personally, I think when one is asking "Are Indonesian people (or any nation) rude?" is only an exaggeration/generalization (or thinking out loud, perhaps, in writing) since most people would probably realize that comparing and assuming one's own culture is the right culture and the others are rude (wrong) is simply ethnocentrism, which stemmed from one's own cultural misunderstanding (and ignorance?).
So, yes, there's usually a get some loose some wherever you go, whoever you deal with. Per my last post or so, I had no objection on the fact that rude people are everywhere and not to be pinpointed to only a certain nation (Indonesia) because being rude is a trait, a learned behavior that any human being can acquire at some point in life or over time. I believe that most people, whatever nation they are from, would blame the rudeness on the parents for not instilling courtesy in their children, then top it off with a spice of their own ignorance growing up, blend it all together with other factors, multiply them into a nation, and the result is that same culture with tendency to promote the extension of that certain rude behavior -- which not all are perceived rude in some cultures, while to some others -- completely unacceptable, for that same reason.
While respecting other culture is a must to ensure harmony (yours as well), especially when you are living and breathing their air, however, on the other hand, I believe we are free to demand the respect to our own cultures as well. Or at least what is passable as a basic manner in today's societies, such as saying thank you, please, sorry, cellphone usage manner, etc --- you know, common courtesy I guess (just forget the driving, going nowhere). While Injun pointed out that not even a terimakasih is as common yet in Indonesia, but I got this hunch that if you would show them how you'd like to be treated, by giving them that same respect and/or communicate the issue to the 'offenders' politely, things usually do get better. Especially to those you encounter in daily basis. More than that, if it's out of your control, patience and tolerance will just have to come in play.
Based on my experience so far, I admit I do find myself seeing that lack of respect juuust a little more here compared to other countries I've lived in. Well, China is pretty up there as well. (Where is Tihzho? :wink: ) But again, I try not to loose my head over it and view it as the 'get some loose some thingy' and enjoy whatever positive things Indonesia has to offer. Over "should-ing" makes people unhappy after all and I'm not in for any of that.
My own experiences are thus:
- Indonesians as a whole (yes, a generalization) who live in Jakarta/Bogor area are inconsiderate toward STRANGERS when measured against my values
- However, once you're seen as part of a circle they're also in, they're very polite. This can be as simple as living in the same complex, of the same religion, etc.
I think the above are true for most people around the world. But as compared to Americans, the difference in treatment is very vast here in Indonesia. Whereas in Oregon (especially in the rural area, but applies even in big cities) the difference between treating a stranger and someone in one's own circle are often very small. Sometimes even none.
I'm currently in the UK and I find some people's behaviour quite appalling.
.......
- I was in a grocery store at a not so nice area and a kid walked up to me and kicked my shin whilst the mother watched.
I think there's a good chance the mum is a BNP sympathiser and/or a recipient of state aid after getting banged by somebody without protection.
Also remember that the borders accross Europe are open, so now there is a huge migrent population in the UK which in my opinion is lowering standards.
As few have mentioned in their replies, I used to get vexed with the usual: general road attitude, the non-existant concept of personal space... Then I was transplanted to a weird and wonderfully batsht insane place called Shanghai. Puts everything into perspective. Back in Indonesia now, happy as a clam.
As few have mentioned in their replies, I used to get vexed with the usual: general road attitude, the non-existant concept of personal space... Then I was transplanted to a weird and wonderfully batsht insane place called Shanghai. Puts everything into perspective. Back in Indonesia now, happy as a clam.
Yep! That's so very true :lol:
Did you notice the air seems fresher here than in Shanghai?
Air quality? Most def... Quite scary now thinking about it, as Jakarta is not exactly your lung-friendly city. Ditto with water, and hey, at least I haven't heard anyone dying by shower electrocution here in Jakarta!
It's all a matter of perspective I'd say
It's all a matter of perspective I'd say
Of course, same with everything.
Jakarta or Bandung - which has better air quality?
Im well aware that this may depend on what you perceive manners to be but im just getting sick of people here invading my space/pushing me out the way/staring at me/and asking ridiculous personal questions. Isnt ignoring somebody's presence rude? Many a time my wife's family don't even say hello or goodbye. Eating in local restaurants rarely involves excuse me or please pass my the sambal etc. My main pet hate is obviously the road where the emphasis is on doing what you want and the people behind have to just cope with it. Its a battle for space. Is there anything in the Indonesian language that translates to "please you go first" if so Ive never heard it. My belief is that manners are directly linked to consideration of other peoples needs. Being aware of other people around you and in this context Indonesians fall very short.
honestly..yes they are rude. I am Indonesian. and I also pissed off with that kind of people. especially my mom. she is one of them. drive me mad when i went with her and need to queue to buy something.
if have people like that, better you just say that "sorry, this is my place. please antri in back there".
That whole personal space thing... Yes, the disregard is clear when driving on the road, but it gets much more in-your-face on a public bus during rush hour. I like sitting aisle seat during my commute because i usually get off before most everyone on the route, but i may have to rethink that preference. Think about strange butts rubbing against your upper arm, handbags mercilessly swung about in that 15 inch of space between your face and the seat in front of you, strange elbows leaning on your shoulder, people coughing/sneezing right on top of your head without bothering to cover, and the occasional stepping on your foot... What bothers me most however is that people don't even have the decency to look at you and say 'excuse me' when they accidentally step on your foot or bump your head with their handbag. :(
Dewidewi63
19-03-12, 23:42
Well, as I am Indonesia also hate my people who did not have any sensitivity to others. Like what you said; I hate when people bumped me with their shopping bag in the mall, I hate when in the lift people with their back pack hit my face and still did not realize it was not OK, buddy! I hate when people passed on my queue in the cashier just because he only bought one item!
BUT I always confronted them because sometimes they did not know it bothers US. SO tell them! It is not about the confrontation but it is how we let them know the right manner should be.
Somebody needs to tell them because obviously they never learnt about the manner. That is what I encourage my family too. Don't just accept it and grumbled behind them. They have never known. Oh so many miss manner we couldn't discuss one by one. BUT again confronts and tells is the best. That way I feel good even though only to one person, I have told them the etiquettes with the hope it will spread slowly to the nation.
As few have mentioned in their replies, I used to get vexed with the usual: general road attitude, the non-existant concept of personal space... Then I was transplanted to a weird and wonderfully batsht insane place called Shanghai. Puts everything into perspective. Back in Indonesia now, happy as a clam.
Never been to mainland China, but have met many of their imports, both in Australia and Canada. They cut queue like it's a sport. Once in an Asian grocery in Sydney, a middle-aged woman cut in front of me, so I said, "Excuse me, I was here before you." She ignored me, so I repeated what I said. Then she turned around and STARED at me like I was a lowly worm. The check-out girl (also from China) smiled apologetically at me while she processed the queue-cutter woman's things. Augh! It was 2-3 years ago and I'm still mad just thinking about it.
Less than two months ago somebody tried to steal my line from the left like an angkot when buying a busway fare, so I used my left hand to hold his body from handing the money to the clerk and I told the clerk, "Mba', saya duluan" and he did just nothing. It felt really good and I'm still proud recalling that moment. I know if he ever looked for problem, the guys tearing the tickets would stand by my side so no fear, besides my mood was more than ready to exchange some punches by then.
Three weeks ago this angkot-style queuing came upon a quite gorgeous lady with a big luggage at the airport check-in table. I stared at her for some seconds, both because of her gorgeousness and because she tried to cut my line (and thinking, "Cakep2 kok nyerobot"), and then as I was still staring and the guy before me got finished she told me smilingly to go ahead of her as if she came first even though she clearly didn't.
I think it's easier to just be vigilant and physically prevent people from cutting the line in front of you. So they want to cut you? Just cut them again! Put your stuff ahead of them while pushing theirs back, but with a smile. Always with a smile. Are they gonna protest you cutting them if they are the one starting the trouble? I don't think so. But, if they have the gall to protest, it's simple enough to point out that you are first.
lone_ranger
18-04-12, 23:06
Some shops I go into I get pinned by one or more sales girls. They usually ask if they can be of any help and I normally tell them that I'm just browsing. And they wouldn't move after that! Can't browse in peace! If I go to a different aisle they keep following me!
A friend of mine is pregnant and she told me that recently one of the girls in the office commented that she had put on weight. She replied, 'I know but I am pregnant'. The office colleague came back with 'but also at the back'. Not really what she wanted to hear but it is fairly typical of Indonesian 'honesty'.
ScooterIndo
19-04-12, 01:26
Has the lift thing been done yet ?
After all these years i still get pissed off when the lift doors open and people try to barge into a packed elevator.
most of what still upsets me is the absolute lack of logic indonesians usually apply to every day life.
I am on a motorbike so i will do a u turn in front of that speeding car
Lift is here just barge in
lights are red and i will just "block the box"
Dont care he is talking to someone i will just butt in
orderly queue - no chance letts all push and shove like uncivillised animals
Stuff like that - rant over.
they can be. They would rather smile ear to ear and lie to your face rather than be straightforward and 'hurt' your feelings from being honest. Its stupid, really.
Tech_14046
21-04-12, 12:16
being a lengthy thread..its difficult to read all posts...however the heading "rude" not acceptable....one cannot except too much comfort or hospitality from strangers or in public place..i hope this is the case in every country, some so called grade A are even worse than this...
I personally feel Indonesians are down to earth polite humble helping tendency in nature (may be very few exceptions/money minded) ..
all the above the practical thing is still people around world love to migrate here...i can see many people trying hard to get job in here though the salary is less than what they get in their home country...
It really bugged me when boarding a plane. Indonesians cannot give me a couple of seconds to put my carry-on in overhead compartment. They keep pushing their ways and pin me to the side of the seat. I often wonder, what's the hurry? You are already in the plane, they won't take off until you sit down and buckle up. Another thing...I always choose aisle seat, and the fellow passenger sitting by the window always just stands up and rub her/his butt against my face. Seriously....chill...I can unbuckle, stand up and step aside. I have no interest in making acquaintance with your butt.
Sure, as a general rule of thumb, people in capital/big cities are in general more rude than villagers. I am guilty of shoving a tourist out of my way because he was in front of me, stopped to read his map right at the bottom of the stairs, the underground was about to leave and I just could not afford to miss that one. Thing is, I knew it was rude (then again, who would have just stopped without stepping aside in a crowded underground station?). The problem with Jakartans here...they don't think, don't know, nor do they care if they are being rude.
I think all this shoving, pushing, and "me first" mentality comes from a society where social conformity is strongly expected, and individuality is frowned upon. In most western countries, people are expected to have their own opinion. Here, we are expected to agree, to not rock the boat, to conform to what others see as "good". I see it in the Middle East too. The locals are forced to wear the same 'uniform', black robe for the women and white robe (in the Summer) for men. Somehow their individuality comes out in a very strange way. Just like Indonesians, they are always late yet they act like they are always in a hurry when driving. They think Q-ing in orderly fashion is so lame and if they stick out by pushing their way forward, they are so "cool" because they don't follow the herd. They just do not get that it just make them look like inconsiderate morons. But I guess it's a given. We all want to establish our own identity; when we are pressured to act and look like million others, we use every opportunity to scream "look at me, look at me". Hence the morons doing crazy things on the street.
naughtygab
24-04-12, 18:15
i read this thread when it was made at first place, but never put any
but last sunday, i went to plaza indonesia and as usual it was packed with people who were looking for parking spot.
after make a second turn around the parking lot, i saw a car was about to leave. so i stopped about 3 meters before his car, i gave my sign and waited for that car to get out. some cars passed me so i was sure that people know that i was waiting for that car.
but then a mercedes car decided to stop about 2 meter in front of that car. as i have predicted , once the parked car left his space, this mercedes directly made his way to fill in that space.
so i decided to move my car and block his car. as i have waited for more than 5 min for that spot. and the mercedes car driver .. an approx 55 years old guy was furious and said me stealing his spot
I opened my window and told him ( well i screamed it out loud .. i could belt! ) that i have waited for that space longer than him. still he yelled at me and expected me to leave that spot. surely i did not leave ... yeah indonesian could be rude.
and they could be mannerless too... but does that only happen in Indonesia? am not sure..
I don't think that rudeness of these kinds only happen in Indonesia. But fir me, the fact that these kinds of behaviour are accepted and seen as normal is what bothers me.
Well there is a well known Australian ex-criminal by the name of 'Chopper' Read, one of his famous saying was "Harden the F*!% Up! " Quite appropriate perhaps :bolt:
^ HAHA
Yep, reading some of these posts I've come to the conclusion you guys would never survive China :lol:
Its all about comparisons. With who are you comparing Indonesians? Yeah, I get the lift thing, but it depends where you are as in how bad it is. For example; at nicer shopping malls I find people in the lifts more conscious of people going out and coming in while at the *ahem "budget" shopping centres you need to apply shoulders and elbows.
Consider this; how much road rage do you see in Jakarta compared to the US or Australia?
Consider this; how much road rage do you see in Jakarta compared to the US or Australia?
Yes, a very good point Tihzho. In fact, just last week, I flashed my lights at a person who overtook me speeding here and they then tried to run me off the road...not once, but Twice!! Road rage is very much a problem here in Western Australia. I never had that problem in Indo, you need all your energy just driving there, you don't have the 'luxury' of spending time on road rage. hehe
We been vacationing the last couple of weeks. First in Shanghai, and then in Sydney and now Melbourne. I've had tons more rude folk in Shanghai and Australia than in Indonesia. I had the worst cabbie I've ever had, here in Melbourne, and I've taken thousands of taxis around the world.
I almost had to mortgage everything to see a movie, and go out to eat last night!
If you want good Indonesian food in Shanghai, try Bali Laguna. About 100-150 RMB per person, without drinks. Bebek Goreng Sumatra and Cap Cay were my favorites.
In Melbourne, we ate at Blok M restaurant, which is a basic, but decent place. 380 Little Bourke, CBD. Most dishes $9-12 Aussie dollars. Ayam Bakar was good. Ikan Bakar was good, but not as good as Indonesia. They take cash only.
ponyexpress
25-04-12, 13:42
We been vacationing the last couple of weeks. First in Shanghai, and then in Sydney and now Melbourne. I've had tons more rude folk in Shanghai and Australia than in Indonesia. I had the worst cabbie I've ever had, here in Melbourne, and I've taken thousands of taxis around the world.
I almost had to mortgage everything to see a movie, and go out to eat last night!
If you want good Indonesian food in Shanghai, try Bali Laguna. About 100-150 RMB per person, without drinks. Bebek Goreng Sumatra and Cap Cay were my favorites.
In Melbourne, we ate at Blok M restaurant, which is a basic, but decent place. 380 Little Bourke, CBD. Most dishes $9-12 Aussie dollars. Ayam Bakar was good. Ikan Bakar was good, but not as good as Indonesia. They take cash only.
Are you in Melb now Jaime? A couple friends of mine took me to Blok M in the city and honestly it's crap. For a better Indonesian food, you should try Warung Agus in Victoria Street, West Melbourne. It's a bit pricey but good food.
As for taxi drivers in Melbourne, they can be very rude.
We been vacationing the last couple of weeks. First in Shanghai, and then in Sydney and now Melbourne. I've had tons more rude folk in Shanghai and Australia than in Indonesia. I had the worst cabbie I've ever had, here in Melbourne, and I've taken thousands of taxis around the world.
I almost had to mortgage everything to see a movie, and go out to eat last night!
If you want good Indonesian food in Shanghai, try Bali Laguna. About 100-150 RMB per person, without drinks. Bebek Goreng Sumatra and Cap Cay were my favorites.
In Melbourne, we ate at Blok M restaurant, which is a basic, but decent place. 380 Little Bourke, CBD. Most dishes $9-12 Aussie dollars. Ayam Bakar was good. Ikan Bakar was good, but not as good as Indonesia. They take cash only.
http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/phpbbforum/resources/image/33301
Shanghai's Bali Laguna - good Indonesian food? Puleeeze!
When I was living in Shanghai I took some Indonesian friends there and we all were very disappointed with the food, it was a 1 out of 5. For starters, they didn't even have saus sambal and forget about cabe rawit. The decoration was nice though.
In Melbourne, we ate at Blok M restaurant, which is a basic, but decent place. 380 Little Bourke, CBD. Most dishes $9-12 Aussie dollars. Ayam Bakar was good. Ikan Bakar was good, but not as good as Indonesia. They take cash only.
Are you in Melb now Jaime? A couple friends of mine took me to Blok M in the city and honestly it's crap. For a better Indonesian food, you should try Warung Agus in Victoria Street, West Melbourne. It's a bit pricey but good food.
We're doing food reviews now? Been a while since I was in Melbourne. I like Blok M in Melbourne, but I've never tried the one in the city. Another vote for the ikan bakar from me.
Frankly, the Indonesian food in Sydney is much better than Melbourne. There are many restaurants along Anzac Parade in Kingsford. Try Ayam Goreng 99 or Mie Karet Pinangsia.
Here in Vancouver, go to the Waterfront Skytrain station. Just across the street is a building with a food court in the basement. Bali Thai stall has good, cheap Indonesian food and a very friendly tante who often gives me free gorengan :D
extrodinary
29-04-12, 09:31
Wow Dowie after reading all this I am in shock. When you land in a country do you expect the country to change for you? they have their ways if you don't like it then why stay? You say they wash like monkeys, I think they all think we smelly bums because we don't wash ourselves with a hose after going to the toilet. The easier thing to do rather then be angry or quick to judge is adjust in the environment your in. the faster you open yourself to learn what is going on the less upset you will be. There is many polite friendly people too once you stop waisting time on focusing on what you don't like.
extrodinary
29-04-12, 09:39
Well said !!!
A lot of people are rude, whether in Indonesia or not. Rudeness is not a trait that belongs to Indonesians only. I'm Indonesian and I can honestly say I've been brought up to have manners.
I'm currently in the UK and I find some people's behaviour quite appalling.
- some people would push you inside a train carriage when you're trying to make your way out.
- some people would smoke and walk at the same time, leaving a train of cigarette on you first thing in the morning. I find this rude.
- some people would walk and type on their smartphones at the same time, slowing everyone down behind them.
- I saw a man pushed a blind man aside because the blind man was 'in his way'.
- I was in a grocery store at a not so nice area and a kid walked up to me and kicked my shin whilst the mother watched.
There are so many other examples I can give, but I'm sure you get the point.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.12 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.