Kasar and Halus Words

[RJ7Mom]

So my mom brought up something my husband says, she says it's kasar or a word that kampung people use: my husband likes to say 'boker' for poop. is my mom being old fashioned or is my husband being kampung? personally i don't mind him using that word, as long as he doesnt say it in front of my parents anymore, since they apparently get offended. can anybody think of any other indonesian words that have their kasar counterparts?

[Alia]

I also dont like the word 'boker', 'beol', 'be**k' (this one is really haram for me to say :D).

And always use 'poop' and 'pee' or 'pipis' instead of 'kencing'. My kids also use those words and I keep telling my maid not to use 'boker'. She never listens. :mmph:

[Puspawarna]

What, "kencing" is kasar? Oh dear. I use it all the time when telling the staff that the dogs need to be let out more often so they don't pee in the house.

Come to think of it, I thought that the Indonesian term for diabetes was "kencing manis"? Or is that also considered crass?

[Alia]

Well.., 'kencing' is actually the right term in Bahasa Indonesia, ~the long term will be 'buang air kecil' but surely its too long and too formal for daily conversation~. And its not really that kasar especially if you use that for the dog. Would be funny if you use 'pipis' for him. :)

I just dont like it when its used for the kids or in my own conversation with others. 'Pee' or 'pipis' or just 'ke kamar mandi' would sounds more sopan.

[hendry_ohe]

I like this Puspa....
[Come to think of it, I thought that the Indonesian term for diabetes was "kencing manis"? Or is that also considered crass?[/QUOTE]

For me boker or beol are much better than be**k.........

[RJ7Mom]

For me boker or beol are much better than be**k.........

so is be**k the same as sh**? like it would get bleeped on television?

[Alia]

..........hoping no one would write the full letters in 'be**k'..........., please....................

[travellingchez]

I thought the t word for air besar was the most kasar? Be**k is commonly used in Medan but then again Medan is well known for be quite kasar in their speech.

[hendry_ohe]

For me both kasar, Be**K is for the activity, T word is for the result of the activity....hahahaha....So like RJ7Mom said - T could get bleeped on television

I thought the t word for air besar was the most kasar? Be**k is commonly used in Medan but then again Medan is well known for be quite kasar in their speech.

[Alia]

.......please .. please .., no one asks what T is ........

:wink:

[Felicity]

i think it also depends on the tribes and the situations, for me as a javanese so many words that are not allowed to say when im with family, but it could be alright to use with friends, even though the words are still mean kasar. for example "bego" "tolol" "goblok" --> kasar hierarchy

[ordinarylabor]

Just my opinion...

-Buang air kecil = Formal, often used by various ages-talk and various situation, consider as polite phrase, often used in Declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences.
-Kencing = Less Formal, usually used for public notice, seldom use by younger to older speakers conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences, but common in same-ages conversation, also considered less polite tahan buang air kecil.
-Pipis = Informal, usually used among same-ages conversation and or older to younger speakers conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences, but common in same-ages conversation.
-Boker = Slang, often used among same-ages conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Sentences, especially teenagers. seldom used Central Java, considered as impolite in formal conversation.

[john madden]

..........hoping no one would write the full letters in 'be**k'..........., please....................


.......please .. please .., no one asks what T is ........

:wink:
I wouldn't have thought this thread/channel was the place for censorship, given that we're here to learn and/or instruct.

[ponyexpress]

I also dont like the word 'boker', 'beol', 'be**k' (this one is really haram for me to say :D).

And always use 'poop' and 'pee' or 'pipis' instead of 'kencing'. My kids also use those words and I keep telling my maid not to use 'boker'. She never listens. :mmph:

Pee is not Indonesian word I suppose. A bit westernised eh?

[lantern]

Pee is not Indonesian word I suppose. A bit westernised eh?

Happens across all languages.

[Nimbus]

I don't think it's necessary to censor impolite words as long as the purpose is strictly educational. You need to know what they are so you can avoid saying them.

Just like in the US you don't spell out the bathroom activity in polite company, you just say you need to go to the bathroom (mau ke kamar mandi). If you have to be specific yet remain polite, use "buang air kecil" for No.1 and "buang air besar" for No. 2.

I don't think boker is an offensive word if used between husband and wife, but I can see it raising eyebrows when used in the presence of father & mother in laws. By the way, the word "boker" was an 80's slang derivative from "berak". The word "berak" itself is not offensive in strict Batavian dialect, but it's rude in Javanese ears.

Now, if you are referring to animals BAK and BAB sound strange. You can use "kencing" for No.1 and "eek" (pronounce each e separately) for No.2. These two words can be used for both the act and the product.

[Nimbus]

The word "pipis" itself was derived from Dutch "pissen".

[ponyexpress]

Happens across all languages.

Westernisation you mean? Oh the empire is back!

[Vie]

another words i hard to say in public communication in correlation with sex education
Kasar :me**k -> halus : vagina
Kasar : ko***l , ti**t -> halus : penis
i'm forced to censor all the "kata kasar" can't say it and can't even write it..

[ricky_id]

"Saya ke WC sebentar" should spare all the headaches... Those who consider it rude should have their head checked. :)

[Snowy city]

Just my opinion...

-Buang air kecil = Formal, often used by various ages-talk and various situation, consider as polite phrase, often used in Declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences.
-Kencing = Less Formal, usually used for public notice, seldom use by younger to older speakers conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences, but common in same-ages conversation, also considered less polite tahan buang air kecil.
-Pipis = Informal, usually used among same-ages conversation and or older to younger speakers conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences, but common in same-ages conversation.
-Boker = Slang, often used among same-ages conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Sentences, especially teenagers. seldom used Central Java, considered as impolite in formal conversation.
Agree...

Forhead:
Kasar = Jidat
Halus = Dahi, kening

[ricky_id]

Halus = orang/manusia tak bermoral/berakhlak
Kasar = brengsek

[ordinarylabor]

"Saya ke WC sebentar" should spare all the headaches... Those who consider it rude should have their head checked. :)

In addition, "Saya ke "belakang" sebentar, Mas Ricky" is another commonly used-expression, if I may even say... it is a bit more polite... :smile:

[travellingchez]

another words i hard to say in public communication in correlation with sex education
Kasar :me**k -> halus : vagina
Kasar : ko***l , ti**t -> halus : penis
i'm forced to censor all the "kata kasar" can't say it and can't even write it..

Vagina or penis aren't Indonesian words. The Indonesia halus word would be kemaluan (privates).
Burung is the more halus word for penis in Indonesian isn't it? Or is that still kasar in Java? Another kasar word for penis is totong. Seems I've learnt many of the kasar words living in Medan over the years ;p

[RJ7Mom]

wow, never knew there were so many synonyms for everything! there should be a guide of appropriate words for the appropriate situation haha...

i've heard of kemaluan, and i had to ask my mom what it meant when i was younger. because i literally thought...shyness?

the fact that the different regions also overlap in words/meaning also confuses me...like...dahar is halus in javanese but kasar in sundanese, right?

[Pak Gondrong]

lol thanks for all teaching us these words, my friends keep asking me where the hell am I learning all these words :D

So that's the reason when Indonesians and Malaysians go to Turkey take photo in front of some restaurants like this:

http://www.cesitliilanlar.com/Images/Dokumanlar/40240/SDC11957 (Custom).JPG

[ordinarylabor]

There is also interesting fact for the word "kemaluan" which often appear in Indonesian writing ; i.e. "her vagina" = kemaluannya = (bagian) kewanitaannya. But, I never found or come across (bagian) "kepriaannya" for "his penis". Just reminder... wanita = woman; pria = man. This word of "(bagian) kewanitaannya is imho considered polite.
Kindly correct me if I am incorrect :smile:

[naughtygab]

actually vagina and penis are biological name . so it's the same everywhere ..and consider decent to be mentioned internationally .
the decent way to mention it is "kemaluan" for both gender. but again, it's weird to use that word in a conversation.

'burung' is actually the children version that parents would teach their kids to mention about their part of the body.

the kasar version of both part could be hundreds of them, since indonesian people could very creative in creating those words ..
i actually has never heard of totong... , but that could be one of some other culture names

Note:
there is a girl named vagina , cant understand how would her parents name her that
titi is an regular indonesian name, titi kamal titi dj, but in philipine, titi is same as penis - ( indonesian says it ti**t)

[travellingchez]

actually vagina and penis are biological name . so it's the same everywhere ..and consider decent to be mentioned internationally .

Note:
there is a girl named vagina , cant understand how would her parents name her that


Most ordinary Indonesian's who don't speak English wouldn't know what vagina or penis means. Maybe amongst the better educated in the larger cities but not in the kampungs and especially not the older generation.




NB: This is based on my personal experience my mother-in-law doesn't even know what no smoking means let alone other English words. This is true for many of the extended family who don't speak English.

[naughtygab]

yes TC... that could happen too... tho penis and vagina word have been listed in biology book of a 9th grade kid.

[travellingchez]

yes TC... that could happen too... tho penis and vagina word have been listed in biology book of a 9th grade kid.

That is if they have reached grade 9/ if there were any textbooks/ if they are lucky and have textbooks they could be really old textbooks and way out of date. All of these could be possible in the kampungs.

[Pak Gondrong]

there is a girl named vagina , cant understand how would her parents name her that


They might be inspired from "Dick"

[Vie]

Kemaluan – never hear anyone use this words in normal conversation. I only read “kemaluan” in text book.
Burung – Hmmmm... hard to say but i only hear this when a mum told his son to wash his “ burung” and adult people use this word to tell jokes about their “P” or sex jokes.

Penis and Vagina i think are the most polite way to say this, i think in Indonesia those words have been used among the people. If we go to any clinic or hospital, the doctor will use V and P not Burung or T words.

[deliverypasta]

So page 3-4 been talking about penis and vagina all the way. Let me add some other words that will lead us somewhere else.
lemme try with this.
Dont:
Lo/loe/lu (you) & gue/gua (me) to someone you respect or older (or ur boss)
Do:
Anda/kamu (you) & saya/aku (me)

I normally addressed someone like this as well (can be to someone u've just met):
If you cant tell their age/somewhere around ur age : mas (male) - mba (female)
If they're older (around ur mom age) : om (male) - tante (female)
if they're younger : adik/adek (can be both sex)
ex:
Mas/mba bawa payung? (Do you bring umbrella?)
Om/tante sudah makan malam? (Hv u eat dinner?)
Can be followed with name
Mas Andi bawa payung?
Tante Nita sudah makan malam?

[RJ7Mom]

does anybody know if using 'si' before a person's name is considered rude?

it's like a filler word...

si bob ke bioskop.

bob ke bioskop.

by putting 'si' first, does it connote a negative attitude? or does it again, depend on the person you're talking to?

[Nimbus]

does anybody know if using 'si' before a person's name is considered rude?it's like a filler word...si bob ke bioskop.bob ke bioskop.by putting 'si' first, does it connote a negative attitude? or does it again, depend on the person you're talking to?It used to be common, but not anymore. Generally you only use "si" with people close enough to be addressed as "kamu".

Ini sepatu siapa?
Ini sepatunya si Bob (Bob is a friend, class mate, or equal colleague at work)
Ini sepatunya Pak Bob / Mas Bob (Bob is a new acquaintance, teacher, elder, or boss)

[Vie]

does anybody know if using 'si' before a person's name is considered rude?

it's like a filler word...

si bob ke bioskop.

bob ke bioskop.

by putting 'si' first, does it connote a negative attitude? or does it again, depend on the person you're talking to?

better to use "Si" behind person's name for people under same age with us. "Si" is not suitable if we call person with prefix "Pak/Bu/Om/Tante". that's why rarely i hear someone call the elder or people we respect with "Si". Si Pak Hendry , Si Bu Pasta. never heard it... but Si Ricky pergi ke pasar, Si Shen naik bis kota are totally common use here :)

[ricky_id]

"Si" is pretty much like "the" in English, no negative connotation as far as I've been using it, but don't ever use it when you're talking or writing in a formal setting.

[Debora]

Ke belakang (pee or pup or other activity related) – for me, this is the most polite word to use
“Saya mau ke belakang dulu”
-> I need to go to the man/lady’s room

Buang air (pee or pup) – no need to describe all. This is the most polite and acceptable common word to use.
“Saya mau buang air”
-> I need to pup / pee

Pup – it’s already westernized but quite common to use especially for them who know English (minimum passive)
“Saya/aku mau/ingin pup”

Kencing (pee) – usually used by male. I feel a bit weird to hear a man say “pipis”. That’s my personal opinion. J

Pipis (pee) – usually used by female or child.

Kemaluan (vagina / penis)

Boker / berak / eek (pup) – it’s a slang words and not polite

[Banana72]

I've always said "Saya mau ke kamar kecil" when talking formally. I will say "Kencing dulu" among close friends/family. As for "Number 2" I normally say 'pup' (from Dutch "Poep") among close friends, or say "BAB" or "Sakit perut" or "mau ke toilet dulu" while holding my stomach, people usually get the drift.

[Banana72]

For vagina - "Barang cewek" Penis "Barang cowok". Self explanatory haha.

[Banana72]

does anybody know if using 'si' before a person's name is considered rude?

it's like a filler word...

si bob ke bioskop.

bob ke bioskop.

by putting 'si' first, does it connote a negative attitude? or does it again, depend on the person you're talking to? I don't think it's rude. Say you met an important person (say "Pak Ahmad") later on I can report to somebody else in the office "Eh, saya ketemu si pak ahmad tadi" the "Si" is just an emphasis for pak Ahmad.

[di.meola]

Just my opinion...

-Buang air kecil = Formal, often used by various ages-talk and various situation, consider as polite phrase, often used in Declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences.
-Kencing = Less Formal, usually used for public notice, seldom use by younger to older speakers conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences, but common in same-ages conversation, also considered less polite tahan buang air kecil.
-Pipis = Informal, usually used among same-ages conversation and or older to younger speakers conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Setences, but common in same-ages conversation.
-Boker = Slang, often used among same-ages conversation as declarative, Interrogative, Exclamatory, and Imperative Sentences, especially teenagers. seldom used Central Java, considered as impolite in formal conversation.

actually boker is part of "prokem" slang. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_slang, see the 1980s or jakarta slang part)
The "rule" is adding "-ok-" in the middle of the word (ex: Bapak => Bokap), so it is basically coming from b***k :p
Please correct me if i'm wrong :)

[Alia]

Boker / berak / eek (pup) – it’s a slang words and not polite

Oh Nooooo Debora ...!!

I promised my self to shoot anyone who writes the real b***k, so : :laser:

[Debora]

Oh Nooooo Debora ...!!

I promised my self to shoot anyone who writes the real b***k, so : :laser:

Oucchhhh.... it hurts. :( Lol.

I'm sorry, Alia. :)

[psychedelic.dee]

ah, i never realized that bahasa indonesia is that complicated for non native to learn.. maybe i took all the learning for granted :p
but now i really cant imagine the torture if they have to learn proper javanese languange (im still struggling myself while im a 100% javanese), the unggah ungguh.
we have 7 level of languange (yes, seven..!)
ngoko, ngoko andhap, madhya, madhyantara, kromo, kromo inggil, bagongan, kedhaton..
aaaaak! :crazy:

[ricky_id]

The good thing is, the informal language (except when it comes to words like b*r*k) could be used in almost any situation except when one has to prepare a formal speech before everybody.

[werjin1029]

Say Ta bian for really really polite word haha , JK

[Sofyan]

There is also interesting fact for the word "kemaluan" which often appear in Indonesian writing ; i.e. "her vagina" = kemaluannya = (bagian) kewanitaannya. But, I never found or come across (bagian) "kepriaannya" for "his penis". Just reminder... wanita = woman; pria = man. This word of "(bagian) kewanitaannya is imho considered polite.
Kindly correct me if I am incorrect :smile:

Actually, "kemaluan" is not specific to gender.

"kemaluan" used to be a man and woman.

think about genital.

It's shame to old indonesian people to say "penis" or "vagina" directly.

They always use "kemaluan" to say "Penis" or "Vagina".

"kemaluan", basicly "malu".

Malu = Shy

[Takri]

What i discover little by little is some very common words or expression, totally correct and appropriate, but that "are not nice to be heard" (tidak enak didengar) for very close people, spouse, etc. It's very tricky because the same word would be totally ok in, say, english.

- For example, the very first time I said "terserah" to my wife (she was my wife-to-be at that time) she got sad but didn't tell me right away. I just wanted to say "up to you" to give her the choice, but she understood "I don't care just pick what you want" hehe. Kurang perhatian. Until now when I forget and say "terserah" I can see her face changing.

- Other example : some of the very very most tidak-enak-didengar words for my wife are "saya", "aku" or any other short words for "I" (I mean, if they come from my mouth and intended to her, or her mother, or somebody very close). I use my name with her and her close family.

- It can be impolite to say "dia" when talking about somebody who is actually present. It is more polite to use the name of the person or "Ibu", "Papa", etc..

[Lumaca]

I always envy the brits for their many terms for the "WC". The little boy's room in particular sounds so posh and yet dirty :P

[Alia]

- Other example : some of the very very most tidak-enak-didengar words for my wife are "saya", "aku" or any other short words for "I" (I mean, if they come from my mouth and intended to her, or her mother, or somebody very close). I use my name with her and her close family.



So, you will say to her something like : "Takri mau makan sekarang", "Takri besok mau ke Jakarta" ?

[Nimbus]

What i discover little by little is some very common words or expression, totally correct and appropriate, but that "are not nice to be heard" (tidak enak didengar) for very close people, spouse, etc. It's very tricky because the same word would be totally ok in, say, english.
- For example, the very first time I said "terserah" to my wife (she was my wife-to-be at that time) she got sad but didn't tell me right away. I just wanted to say "up to you" to give her the choice, but she understood "I don't care just pick what you want" hehe. Kurang perhatian. Until now when I forget and say "terserah" I can see her face changing.
- Other example : some of the very very most tidak-enak-didengar words for my wife are "saya", "aku" or any other short words for "I" (I mean, if they come from my mouth and intended to her, or her mother, or somebody very close). I use my name with her and her close family.
- It can be impolite to say "dia" when talking about somebody who is actually present. It is more polite to use the name of the person or "Ibu", "Papa", etc..
Here's my take:
- The word "terserah" used by itself, in a certain tone, is similar to the American "whatever". However, if you use it in a sentence like "terserah ibu saja", it's fine.
- The Indonesian "Saya" is ok when you are addressing somebody older than you (like parents and parent-in-laws), although many Indonesians would artfully construct the sentence to avoid saying that personal pronoun altogether. Between husband and wife "Aku" is perfectly normal. Referring to yourself in third person is ok with parents, but it sounds childish when used with spouse. Maybe I'm too much of a Jakartan, but the last time I used my name to call myself was in elementary school.
- The third example is spot on.

[RJ7Mom]

Interesting, I find it difficult to say "aku" and "saya" too. I always use my name which sounds so childish and strange. But my husband says "I" even when he's speaking bahasa. Like he would say "I mau ke Bandung hari ini." when i heard it for the first time, I wanted to laugh. But then I thought its a better alternative to saya and aku. So I've grown to like it :)

[Nimbus]

Interesting, I find it difficult to say "aku" and "saya" too. I always use my name which sounds so childish and strange. But my husband says "I" even when he's speaking bahasa. Like he would say "I mau ke Bandung hari ini." when i heard it for the first time, I wanted to laugh. But then I thought its a better alternative to saya and aku. So I've grown to like it :)I've encountered people who used the English "You" when speaking in Indonesian. I decided that I don't like it, it feels disrespectful to the language and elitist at the same time. Personally I prefer to use "aku" among family members and "gue" among friends.

[Vie]

but for me to say mix language like this :
I mau ke mall dulu yah
Ai mau ke pasar
you mau ikut gak ?
they still sounds OK for me, no problem. no hard feeling at all for those who say with those mix languages :)

[Lydia]

I and you sounds oke and funny if use it mix..

I teach my husband kasar and halus language so he can joke also and use it to people.

have to know kasar language because you need to know when people insult you.

[Lumaca]

Using your own name in speech could also be pompous. Like Caesar.

Lumaca is most amused.

But in everyday life, I use aku or saya for EVERY occasion, I don't subscribe to gue. It sometimes lead people to ask whether I was foreign :wacko:

To refer to other people, I use their title or name. "Bapak" or "ibu".

[Takri]

My wife is from west sumatra, and there it is not childish at all to use its own name to say "I". Actually most people do it, I heard it everywhere. I cannot even say "saya" to my wife's mum, she would feel I put a distance between her and me. It is considered to me closer and more intimate to use own's name instead of saya/aku. My wife uses her name to talk to her mum, brother, sister, friends, neighbours, etc. and many young people do the same (of course older people use other words).
But yes, she used to live in Jakarta for some time and there she often used aku/gue.

[RJ7Mom]

How do you guys feel when at shopping centers the workers or even customers say "Ci."

I'm not of Chinese descent, but I still find it personally degrading every time I hear it. Maybe it's because I think it's almost equivalent to the "N" word in American-English. At school, I was always told that any word that describes a person's heritage/nationality is considered offensive.

[Nimbus]

How do you guys feel when at shopping centers the workers or even customers say "Ci."

I'm not of Chinese descent, but I still find it personally degrading every time I hear it. Maybe it's because I think it's almost equivalent to the "N" word in American-English. At school, I was always told that any word that describes a person's heritage/nationality is considered offensive.
I assume you know that there are few instances where Indonesians don't use honorifics. The Chinese "Ci" and "Ko" are honorifics. That's also why Indonesians by default address any bule as "Mister".

America is different from Indonesia. Here it is considered respectful to address someone using honorifics appropriate for his/her ethnic group. For example, if an older (but not senior) man is from Padang, it's good to call him "Uda" instead of "Mas". You are acknowledging his heritage. When you address a Chinese man as "Ko", you are acknowledging (and respecting) his heritage.

I have a distant relative from North Sumatera, and it's more respectful to address him as "Ompung" rather than the generic "Kakek". If you address him using the Javanese "Eyang", it's actually mildly insulting in its ignorance.

Before Suharto's time I think the Chinese were treated just like any other ethnic group, so people used honorifics appropriate to them. During Suharto's time there was a systematic push to erase or downplay Chinese heritage, which means you're not supposed to see Chinese Indonesians, only Indonesians. In this regard it's the same as the US where you're not supposed to address somebody as African American, Hispanic American, Asian American, etc. You're supposed to be "color blind" and address them all the same. My mom belongs to the pre-Suharto era, meaning she grew up not indoctrinated by the New Order, so it's natural for her to use "Ci" and "Ko". I am a product of New Order education, so I'm programmed to not see Chinese heritage and as such I still cringe when I hear "Ci" and "Ko".

[Alia]

How do you guys feel when at shopping centers the workers or even customers say "Ci."

I'm not of Chinese descent, but I still find it personally degrading every time I hear it. Maybe it's because I think it's almost equivalent to the "N" word in American-English. At school, I was always told that any word that describes a person's heritage/nationality is considered offensive.

I got that a lot. :)

Although my eyes are as big as Japanese cartoon, one of my high school friend said that I exude some chinese-ness aura. (thanks mom !)

[ricky_id]

How do you guys feel when at shopping centers the workers or even customers say "Ci."

I'm not of Chinese descent, but I still find it personally degrading every time I hear it. Maybe it's because I think it's almost equivalent to the "N" word in American-English. At school, I was always told that any word that describes a person's heritage/nationality is considered offensive.

I agree with Injun. I, a Chinese descent, would treat the title of "Ko" as a mark of respect. If one really wanted to troll on me, "Cina" (or even worse, "Cina'") would suffice.

[divineelite]

So, you will say to her something like : "Takri mau makan sekarang", "Takri besok mau ke Jakarta" ?
My wife(from Medan) does this all the time lol. Used to sound funny previously but now I have gotten used to it. So she is like "Ibu mau pergi" or "Danu mau sarapan sekerang?" when talking to our son.

The "si" can be used in a crass way also I think. If Danu forgot to buy something she wanted for example, she would be like "dia lupa roti...si Danu...ihhh!". I have joined her as well in using "si" in that way :P. Iono...just sounds very Indonesian so I like it!

[ausdag]

As far as I can recall, I often heard my Chinese descent students use 'Ci' and 'Ko' as honorific terms of address to their equivalent of Kakak (mas, mbak).

However, In relation to what I think RJ&Mom is getting at - what I did notice however, is how they took the honorific term of address 'mbak' (a Javanese honorific) and turned it into a (slightly) more derrogatory 3rd person pronoun in reference to their maids and any non-chinese girl...('Itu loh..mbak-mbak itu yg lagi nongkrong sono'). So perhaps when a non-Chinese uses 'Ci' in a similar 3rd person manner that I think RJ7Mom is suggesting, that it too, takes on a more derrogatory feel.

[Nimbus]

As far as I can recall, I often heard my Chinese descent students use 'Ci' and 'Ko' as honorific terms of address to their equivalent of Kakak (mas, mbak).

However, In relation to what I think RJ&Mom is getting at - what I did notice however, is how they took the honorific term of address 'mbak' (a Javanese honorific) and turned it into a (slightly) more derrogatory 3rd person pronoun in reference to their maids and any non-chinese girl...('Itu loh..mbak-mbak itu yg lagi nongkrong sono'). So perhaps when a non-Chinese uses 'Ci' in a similar 3rd person manner that I think RJ7Mom is suggesting, that it too, takes on a more derrogatory feel.
Yeah, but reduplication of "Ci" is "Enci-enci", which sounds different and doesn't quite carry a derogatory feel. Reduplication only feels slightly derogatory when used with certain honorifics, mostly because they are honorifics commonly used to address maids, clerks, and other manual laborers like "mbak-mbak", "mas-mas", and particularly "abang-abang" in Jakarta. The words "ibu-ibu", "bapak-bapak", "nenek-nenek" and "kakek-kakek" are not derogatory at all.

[ausdag]

True. I write with reference only to mbak and mas, and yes, abang-abang also used in a similar manner. The tone of voice was also a good indicator to me that they were using these in a derogatory manner, quite the opposite to how one would hear in Java.

[indonomad]

actually boker is part of "prokem" slang. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_slang, see the 1980s or jakarta slang part)
The "rule" is adding "-ok-" in the middle of the word (ex: Bapak => Bokap), so it is basically coming from b***k :p
Please correct me if i'm wrong :)

As another fun-fact geek, I just wanna say I <3 your reply heaps!

[erlynesu]

"boker" is only use with your closest friend. if you want to pee/ poop, it's should be "saya mau ke toilet/kamar kecil"

[747-8]

I think it's the same in Australia (or any western country) as well. If you need to do your business, do you need to tell people what 'kind of business' that is? School kids in Australia would say to their teachers' "sir/ms .. may I go to the toilet?" .. I've never heard anyone say "sir/ms, I need to take a dump/piss" ...

[neosembrana]

Just say you want to E'e (what its sound like ya??) anyway just ask to your indonesian how to say E'e its better and more funny to say hahahha