View Full Version : US citizen to marry in indonesia + prenup questions
GoSacKings12
06-12-11, 02:06
I am new to this forum but have read as much information as I can. I have questions regarding the letter of no impediment and prenup. I was born in Indonesia before immigrated to US 13 years ago. And now I want to marry my girlfriend in Indonesia. Our goal is to have my future wife to move to US as soon as possible. Therefore we would like to begin with the marriage in Indonesia and start the paperwork from there.
The only document I have question is letter of no impediment. US does not have such document to produce, so when I goto US embassy website in Jakarta, I downloaded an affadivit form that has 2 parts: I have not married yet and I have no impediment to marry. Now do I need to actually to go to Jakarta to sign the affadivit before the consular? Another alternative, can I create similar document and have it notarized in US and bring it over? Or should I ask Indonesian embassy in US to get more information?
Regarding the prenup, do I need it? Since.the goal is to live in US, what does it matter to have prenup or not? as far as I know, she just have a house in Indo and I dont have any Property (harta) in Indo. Does she like own my property as soon as we married? i'm a little confused.with the prenup.stuff.
What is your nationality?
GoSacKings12
06-12-11, 02:11
I am a US citizen now
GoSacKings12
06-12-11, 02:22
Another thing to add is my girlfriend is arranging a local whom she knows well to prepare all the paperwork. Basically, when I got there, we'd like to get the marriage processed very quickly through the religious and the civil way. All we need to do is to give all the paperwork in advance (hopefully photocopy is okay until I arrived there to give originals). The local understands that since I live in US now, he mentions to have something done by notary regarding the letter of impediment. That's why I am asking what's the best way to get that letter approved.
On the prenup; since you marry in Indonesia and since your future wife is a WNI, it would be necessary to have one. Otherwise you would automatically be co-owner of the property she owns and that is not allowed. It could lead to big problems when you decide to sell the house.
Others will have to advise you on the US specific issues.
Hi There,
I think you are talking about two different things.
I gather you are intending to register your marriage in Indonesia under Indonesian Law?
You need the letter of No impediment to marriage, to process your marriage certificate as required by KUA. The letter of No impediment will satisfy the proof requirement that you have not been in any prior marriage relationships.
If you are intending to get this letter ready while you are in the US, you will be able to get the form from the US department of immigration and get them authorised it. Or othewise, you are able to get the document through the US embassy in Jakarta. We opted for the second option and found the process was relatively fast and efficient (all up took about 2 hours to get the letter). Though find out how much is the fee involve as you will need to pay it in cash.
With the pre-nup, the letter is only necessary if you are intending to own a property/land in indonesia. In other words, you do not need a pre-nup to legalise your marriage. The indonesian law prohibits a foreigner to own a land or property. In your case, you probably have to ask you wife to maintain her indonesian citizenship forever...or until such time when Indonesian government has change the law to allow and recognise dual citizenships. I would advice you to find a lawyer help you prepare and draft the pre-nup agreement and the document needs to be reqistered in the local court.
Hope this help.
Been there and done that.
Onholiday is wrong. You DO need the prenup as your wife already owns property and you are a WNA. As star says, if she decides to sale that property there will be problems. Similarly, in case of divorce or death of the WNI parent, i.e. inheritance to future children.
GoSacKings12
06-12-11, 12:41
@onholiday, yes I plan to marry her under indonesian law. where would you get the letter of no impediment authorized from US immigration? As far as I know US does not produce such document. The document, the affadavit, I downloaded from US embassy in jakarta website which contains both english and indonesian. Can indo embassy in san francisco authorize it? I plan to go there tomorrow. Or as you said, go with second option which is to visit US embassy in jakarta which is okay too since I will be visiting indo to marry her. So you are saying it is easy? No appointment necessary?
@redsnapr, jtar. So if we don't prepare prenup and later my future wife sells property, it would be troublesome? That's because of joint ownership through marriage even though as foreigner I can't own anything? It's just weird why would there be any problem since its all under her name and I will let her do anything to her property as she wish, i.e sell or give. As I was saying, I don't plan to own anything anyway, because the goal for both of us is to live in US. So she will have to sell or give any property she owns to her parents, or siblings before becoming US citizen in distant future.
Yes to your question to star and me. Under family law, all property is joint property after marriage, unless there's a prenup. At the time your future wife decides to sell her property she'll present documents that show she's married. In such a case both partners have to sign but you are a WNA who, according to the land law, cannot own property. It's a catch-22 situation that can only be resolved via the prenup.
Wonderful, right?
Perhaps I didnt explain it clearly enough regarding your Pre-nup. You do need a pre-nup if :
1) Your fiance is currently own a property (legally under her name) - Without a prenup, By law she is forced to give up proportion of the property (now belongs to you as WNA - as a result of your marriage) - If I am not wrong within 6 months.
2) Both of you has a future intention to own a property in Indonesia - Your wife can own the property under her name as long as she keeps her WNI.
3) Any posibility of any of you will receive an inheritance from your parents in a form of a house/land? which means you need to refer to my point no.1
If you do not care of any of those 3 points above, you do not need to bother of getting a pre-nup letter. Just make sure that your wife needs to transfer her ownership of the land/house to her family member or sell it prior to your wedding.
As for the letter of no impediment - You need to go to the US embassy in Jakarta or the US immigration office in san francisco. This letter has nothing to do with Indonesian embassy as you are not an indonesian citizen anymore.
I just got the no impediment letter here in Jakarta. I don't know about getting it State side but I know here it was super easy. It took me all of 45 minutes and cost $50 (roughly 450,000Rp). OnHoliday is right with the prenup. It is NOT necessary to LEGALIZE a marriage. But it is necessary when property is involved in a marriage between a WNA and a WNI. But even that was easy to draft. We did at a notaris and it cost 700,000Rp. Just make sure it says Pisah Harta or its legal equivalent
If your goal is to have your future wife move to the U.S. as soon as possible than you should not marry in Indonesia. If you marry in Indonesia you will have to apply for a K3 spouse visa and this type of visa takes up to 9 months to process and I have friends who have waited over a year. The quickest is the K1 fiance visa which takes 3 to 6 months to process and once your fiance has entered the U.S. you have 90 days to get married. You can still register the marriage in Indonesia as you will have one year after your return to Indonesia, to report the marriage to the Civil Registry Office.
(I) Regarding the prenup, do I need it?
(II) Since.the goal is to live in US, what does it matter to have prenup or not? ...
(I) Differently from Jstar and Redsnapr , I think you don't need a prenup , based on the following information (which means that the house your girlfriend has will not become jointly owned by you two after the marriage) :
Below is a partial copy of the info at http://www.expat.or.id/info/marriage...lications.html (http://www.expat.or.id/info/marriagelegalimplications.html)
[The property brought by the husband and wife separately and the property earned of respective parties as gifts or inheritance stays under their own possession, unless otherwise specified by respective parties. Each of the parties shall separately retain all rights and interests in all property of any kind which he or she owns to dispose of such separate property.
The property acquired during the marriage becomes joint property of a married couple. The husband and /or wife have a legal capacity to dispose of such property upon approval of both parties. In accordance with the Indonesian Marriage Law, such property shall be referred to as marital property.]
The above is probably based on Article 35 of the Indonesian marriage Law (Undang-undang Republik Indonesia Nomor 1 Tahun 1974
Tentang Perkawinan) :
[BAB VII - HARTA BENDA DALAM PERKAWINAN
Pasal 35
(1) Harta benda yang diperoleh selama perkawinan menjadi harta bersama
(2) Harta bawaan dari masing-masing suami dan isteri dan harta benda yang diperoleh masing-masing sebagai hadiah atau warisan, adalah di bawah penguasaan masing-masing sepanjang para pihak tidak menentukan lain.]
(II) Although you don't need a prenup (separated wealth) due to the house owned by your future wife , I think it is good to have it anyway . It cost as cheap as Rp300k (normally less than Rp1 Juta) and gives you the flexibility of , for example , later buy a house for your retirement in Indonesia . It is not mandatory to register in court also .
http://www.expat.or.id/info/prenuptialagreement.html
http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/19626-Prenup-Form-and-Notary?p=209144#post209144 (prenup sample)
http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/11352-Simple-prenup-Notaris-fee-for-prenup?highlight=notary (prenup price Rp500k to Rp1500k)
http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/3115-Pre-Nuptial-agreements-revisited/page3?highlight=prenup ( Atlantis , post no.24 , court register )
GoSacKings12
06-12-11, 23:51
Thank you all for the information. I am a situation where my girlfriend owns property and I have none in Indo. So later on, I will think she will sell property or give it up before she comes to U.S. So in that case, I will need prenup to avoid problem when selling the property?
@bang arif
how long ago when you got the letter? Do you need to make appointment? What number do you contact? The reason is because I live in united states and will need to arrange it prior my arrival in indonesia.
GoSacKings12
07-12-11, 04:16
@jave2001 as far as I know, k3 visa is no longer offered as of feb 2010, thus it is now immigrant.visa type cr1/ir1. the other alternative is k1 visa as you suggested. In most cases, you are right that it is a faster process for k1 visa than ir1/cr1, but the advantage for cr1/ir1 us that you automatically receive green card once you arrive in u.s.
I just got the letter about two months ago. Yes you will have to make an appointment but it seems to be a formality just to enter the embassy but it can be done online. Then download the form available on the website and fill it out. Then when you go the notary will stamp and sign it and you will sign it in front of him. Pretty easy. I was pleasantly surprised. Here is the website: http://jakarta.usembassy.gov/index.html. Good luck
@jave2001 as far as I know, k3 visa is no longer offered as of feb 2010, thus it is now immigrant.visa type cr1/ir1. the other alternative is k1 visa as you suggested. In most cases, you are right that it is a faster process for k1 visa than ir1/cr1, but the advantage for cr1/ir1 us that you automatically receive green card once you arrive in u.s.
This is a common misconception, in order to receive a permenant residence permit you will have to be married with your foreign spouse at least 2 years. If you have been married for less than two years when your foreign citizen spouse enters the United States on an immigrant visa, his or her permanent resident status is considered “conditional.” The immigrant visa is a conditional resident (CR) visa, not an immediate relative (IR) visa.
You and your spouse must apply together to USCIS to remove the conditional status within the ninety days before the two-year anniversary of your spouse’s entry into the United States on his or her immigrant visa. The two-year anniversary date of entry is the date of expiration on the alien registration card
The ir1/cr1 petition cannot be filed from Indonesia, it must be filed in the U.S., file the Petition for Alien Relative, Form I-130 , with the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for your spouse (husband or wife) to immigrate to the United States.
Effective August 15, 2011, petitioners residing outside the United States will no longer be able to routinely file Forms I-130, Petition for Alien Relative, with U.S. embassies and consulates.
Starting on August 15, 2011, U.S. embassies and consulates may only accept I-130 petition filings from petitioners who believe they have exceptional situations that would merit an exception from filing by mail to the USCIS Chicago Lockbox. Also Indonesia does not have an International Immigration Field office. In order to get an exception than you must be one of the following,
A U.S. service member stationed overseas becomes aware of a new deployment or transfer with very little notice.
A petitioner or beneficiary is facing an urgent medical emergency that requires immediate travel.
A petitioner or beneficiary is facing an imminent threat to personal safety.
A beneficiary is within a few months of aging out of eligibility.
The petitioner and family have traveled for the immigrant visa interview, but the petitioner has naturalized and the family member(s) require a new, stand-alone petition.
Also a visa applicant (you are the applicant as you are the sponsor) for whom a petition is filed with a U.S. embassy or consulate must be able to remain in the country where the embassy or consulate is located for the time it takes to process the visa and again this could take up to 1 year to process.
Good advice.
PM-ing a bit with Marcus, Jave and Juan, I see we still don't have a clear and unisonous answer on the possible conflict between Marriage Law and Property Law.
So better be safe than sorry and always get a prenup in case of marriage in Indonesia, right?
I definitely agree with having one done before the wedding. You never know when and if the circumstances of your relationship may change.
So better be safe than sorry and always get a prenup in case of marriage in Indonesia, right?
I would agree, especially as it's not very complicated.
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