View Full Version : Is this a new scam?
Sky Garden
03-01-11, 19:49
Ok here is what happened, I got a new Handphone for Christmas, I gave my old one to the maid, she is a good girl and has been with me for 3 years. Anyway she decided to try make some money and sell her old one, not worth a lot but I admired her business sense. She advertised it in the local paper. Yesterday she got a call from someone wanting to buy it, however as they were not close they asked her for her bank details they said they would transfer the money to her account and once she received the money she would Tiki it to them which they would pay for. They told her to check her account and call them to confirm the money had arrived and call them if it hadn't. So she goes to the ATM, no money there and call them. They tell her to check again and call them while she is checking ie the card is in the ATM machine which she does. A conversation goes on and no money is transfered, but now they have emptied her account....... seems they had to know when her ATM card was in the machine. She lost about 3 million, not a lot to us but she is distraught. Anyone else heard of this?
Yes... They probably asked her to input their account number and specify an amount in order for them to complete their transfer. It is sometimes confusing to those who are not very familiar with such transactions. And because she was desperate to sell the phone, she probably fell victim to their scam.
Next tell her to call the bank and get her transaction details. Bank name, swift code, etc... There is absolutely no need for her to go at the ATM machine.
Yes and enough examples that she should have been aware. Definitely NOT a new scam. Well worn.
Not a scam as such but more a case of social engineering; she was basically conned into transferring from her account to theirs, instead of the other way around. I've heard about this one from 2 people locally who also fell for it; although they'll happily say they were hypnotized. C'est la vie I guess.
It's surprising though how easily most Indonesian (and a lot of you expat types) can be social engineered, I'm almost tempted to write a paper on it.
It's been in the local papers several times, warning ATM users. Typically the con artist can spot the vulnerable by what they are selling. Of course they pray on the uneducated and those who come from the kampung to the big city.
The hypnotism method is very frequent, and especially amongst the locals. The only expat cases that I have heard of are when one is drunk and got a case of pink magic after a night at the bar. I guess that is a similar case of hypnotism but works on the lower head of males?
This is one thing that I certainly don't miss about Indonesia. Way too many scams going on, two of my neighbors experienced it. One was "hypnotized" over the phone to drive to the bank and transfer money out. His strange attitude attracted the attention of the bank's Satpam who actually approached him and warned him to be careful. It didn't help, he didn't snap out of it until 50 million Rp later.
The other was a case of social engineering. She was called to immediately transfer a large sum of money supposedly because her husband got hospitalized due to a horrific accident. They almost got her because all his phone numbers were mysteriously blocked. She was saved when a good samaritan who gave her a lift to the ATM suggested that she tried his coworker's phone number. As luck had it, the coworker was actually sitting in his office with her husband. I'm convinced that these guys have connections inside Telkom, somebody who has the means to block phone numbers.
It's been in the local papers several times, warning ATM users. Typically the con artist can spot the vulnerable by what they are selling. Of course they pray on the uneducated and those who come from the kampung to the big city.
The hypnotism method is very frequent, and especially amongst the locals. The only expat cases that I have heard of are when one is drunk and got a case of pink magic after a night at the bar. I guess that is a similar case of hypnotism but works on the lower head of males?
I think expats are rather safe from hypnotism because the crooks don't speak enough English to pull it off.
Similar method seems to be common elsewhere:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7309947.stm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002166501_hypnotic01.html
http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/lifestyle/lifestyle/view/20081006-164928/Criminals_now_use_hypnosis_to_rob_people
One was "hypnotized" over the phone to drive to the bank and transfer money out. His strange attitude attracted the attention of the bank's Satpam who actually approached him and warned him to be careful. It didn't help, he didn't snap out of it until 50 million Rp later.
Where can I learn to do that?
Where can I learn to do that?
Even if I know the place, why would I promote it? There's more than enough of it going around.
Was meant to be a joke.
1. I never would be able to pull it off (although I'd like to give it a try, hypnotize my boss for a few millions)
2. I expect it can't be done, I personally wouldn't believe it even if I saw it
Was meant to be a joke.
1. I never would be able to pull it off (although I'd like to give it a try, hypnotize my boss for a few millions)
2. I expect it can't be done, I personally wouldn't believe it even if I saw it
If I didn't know the guy, I would simply brush it off as him being stupid. But, I know the guy and he's not a dummy. If his case was social engineering like the woman, he would have shared the ruse so we can at least learn from it. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe it and how you choose to explain it, what matters is that it works. Money did change hands.
The other was a case of social engineering. She was called to immediately transfer a large sum of money supposedly because her husband got hospitalized due to a horrific accident. They almost got her because all his phone numbers were mysteriously blocked. She was saved when a good samaritan who gave her a lift to the ATM suggested that she tried his coworker's phone number. As luck had it, the coworker was actually sitting in his office with her husband. I'm convinced that these guys have connections inside Telkom, somebody who has the means to block phone numbers.
I read similar story,but the husband switched off the cellphone because the scammer (posing as telco engineer) told him to do so.
Well so far from what I heard from my relatives who become victims ,scammers try to exploit greedines or compassion .
Another trick ,while you are going to use ATM, someone ask for your help to transfer smoney to a bank account (reason:relatives in hospital ,he/she doesnt have account in that bank ,banks are closed) , in exchange s/he will give you same amount of cash money(usually 100 thousand notes).
Looks harmless ,take the cash money from the scammer and transfer the same amount to the scammer account ,until you find out the next morning that the money notes are counterfeit.
When trying to trace that bank account ,usually they use bank in Sumatra or Kalimantan branch ,that add another complexity in investigation.
Amusing scam from last year.Someone set up an online prostitution website. Put gorgeous girls pics in that site , the wannabe client need to deposit money upfront. The catch ,there are no girls .for years the guy who setup this site managed to collect billions of rupiah until some victims "bravely" report this site to police.
It's very embarrassing to get ripped-off by con-artists even for one with their family and close friends. Lots of "intelligent" people have been taken. Hypnosis is one of the excuses the taken say happened to avoid accepting the fact they didn't see through the ruse. As ridiculous as it seems, saying they were hypnotized on a cell phone or however, it's more comforting to blame something without than take responsibility themselves.
It's very embarrassing to get ripped-off by con-artists even for one with their family and close friends. Lots of "intelligent" people have been taken. Hypnosis is one of the excuses the taken say happened to avoid accepting the fact they didn't see through the ruse. As ridiculous as it seems, saying they were hypnotized on a cell phone or however, it's more comforting to blame something without than take responsibility themselves.
It is equally embarrassing to be a victim of hypnotism because it implies that you're feeble-minded, or you don't have all your marbles.
I read similar story,but the husband switched off the cellphone because the scammer (posing as telco engineer) told him to do so.
Ah, that's very possible. But, I know of another case involving someone abroad. The mother received a call from someone claiming to represent the U.S. Embassy saying that his son was in a serious accident, that she needed to transfer money right away to cover hospital costs. She tried calling his U.S. number, but it was blocked. Not simply unavailable, but blocked. Nobody called long distance to ask him to switch it off.
Thankfully she remembered somebody mentioning that hospitals in USA don't operate that way. Finally she also used someone else's phone number to get to him.
The so-called "hypnotism" is also not really hypnotism; it's social engineering as well, or rather, NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming). Whereas hypnotism can make you act like a rabid monkey on drugs, NLP will make you susceptible to suggestions, when done correctly, a suggestion can come across to you as being your own idea. In the long run it still boils down to making people do things they usually wouldn't do.
Expats are also not immune to this; there's a good chance that I can social engineer a good amount of you lot :)
Expats are also not immune to this; there's a good chance that I can social engineer a good amount of you lot :)
You're on. I'd really like to see you confirm my opinion of which of the regulars are like "rabid monkeys on drugs".
Hopefully you can also make some beer money on the side.
<And what makes you think I'm kidding?>
Puspawarna
04-01-11, 08:26
The other was a case of social engineering. She was called to immediately transfer a large sum of money supposedly because her husband got hospitalized due to a horrific accident. They almost got her because all his phone numbers were mysteriously blocked. She was saved when a good samaritan who gave her a lift to the ATM suggested that she tried his coworker's phone number. As luck had it, the coworker was actually sitting in his office with her husband. I'm convinced that these guys have connections inside Telkom, somebody who has the means to block phone numbers.
Someone tried to pull that one on me the other day. Since he spoke a little bit of English, I had fun screaming at him in two languages! Of course, after he hung up I did call my husband just to be 100% sure he was fine, but I knew perfectly well he hadn't been in a car accident.
It is equally embarrassing to be a victim of hypnotism because it implies that you're feeble-minded, or you don't have all your marbles.
This is not true. A good hypnotist can hypnotize intelligent people. It's not a sign of being feeble-minded at all. I had the chance to see professionals at work. Some people are more vulnerable to hypnosis than others, but it's not because of their feeble-mind or being crazy.
If you have a feeble-mind or a nut on your hands, it's much easier to simply convince him than to attempt hypnosis. Feeble-minds are gullible.
- - -
If you have poorly educated people with a hunger for money, they will be much easier to scam. I know many Indonesians who got caught in scams promising jobs overseas. They had to dish out money to reserve their seat, or pay their plane ticket which would be refunded once they started working. Of course, no job existed and they just lost a lot of gold.
No need to find masters of hypnosis. There's already a population of myth believing, religiously indoctrinated, money hungry, uneducated people all around you. They are very gullible for the most part. Most Indonesians I met believe a story the first time they hear it. Even if it's about walking dead people in Toraja. Being doubtful would be impolite. Since they were 5 they learned to believe religious fables without having the right to demand proof or cast even a smidgeon of doubt.
Someone tried to pull that one on me the other day. Since he spoke a little bit of English, I had fun screaming at him in two languages! Of course, after he hung up I did call my husband just to be 100% sure he was fine, but I knew perfectly well he hadn't been in a car accident.
It's good that you yelled at him, if you didn't the bastard would have called and called and called again. My mom got one of these calls and she just hung up. They didn't stop calling her back until she screamed bloody murder.
This is not true. A good hypnotist can hypnotize intelligent people. It's not a sign of being feeble-minded at all. I had the chance to see professionals at work. Some people are more vulnerable to hypnosis than others, but it's not because of their feeble-mind or being crazy.
If you have a feeble-mind or a nut on your hands, it's much easier to simply convince him than to attempt hypnosis. Feeble-minds are gullible.
I don't have knowledge about how hypnosis works. But, regardless of which kind of personalities are actually susceptible to it, most people here think hypnosis victims are somewhat weak minded. The point is: being a victim of hypnotic manipulation is just as embarrassing as being a victim of fraud.
If you have poorly educated people with a hunger for money, they will be much easier to scam. I know many Indonesians who got caught in scams promising jobs overseas. They had to dish out money to reserve their seat, or pay their plane ticket which would be refunded once they started working. Of course, no job existed and they just lost a lot of gold.
The problem is even real job placement agencies are similarly exploitative. It's not always obvious which ones are fake, because they can create all sorts of credible-looking documents and secure official support from local governments with the right amount of money. Indonesians has a peculiar expression: "aspal" which stands for "asli tapi palsu" or real (document) but fake (information). To make it even murkier, it's entirely possible that they started out honest but turned bad after a while.
No need to find masters of hypnosis. There's already a population of myth believing, religiously indoctrinated, money hungry, uneducated people all around you. They are very gullible for the most part. Most Indonesians I met believe a story the first time they hear it. Even if it's about walking dead people in Toraja. Being doubtful would be impolite. Since they were 5 they learned to believe religious fables without having the right to demand proof or cast even a smidgeon of doubt.
Appearing to agree and actually believing are two different things. While there are plenty of gullible people, the real money lies in scamming the educated ones, those who can transfer 50 million with ease.
Appearing to agree and actually believing are two different things.
Worth repeating.
Appearing to agree and actually believing are two different things.
Well done.
You're on. I'd really like to see you confirm my opinion of which of the regulars are like "rabid monkeys on drugs".
Hopefully you can also make some beer money on the side.
<And what makes you think I'm kidding?>
Rabid monkeys = hypnotism, which I don't do :P (if I could, you think I'd still be here? :P)
I'll give it a shot, but not on the forum :) At some point I'll undoubtedly end up meeting some of you folks so, I'll see if I can convince people to pay for my beers :)
The point is: being a victim of hypnotic manipulation is just as embarrassing as being a victim of fraud.
I honestly don't see anything embarrassing in either case. You can't really stop an hypnotist if you don't see him coming, it doesn't matter how strong you think you are. The same way you can't always stop a fraud unless it's a obvious one.
Being embarrassed is one of the problems. Embarrassed people are less likely to report the case. I think everyone has to become aware of fraud and that it can happen to anyone regardless if you're intelligent or not. If you get caught in a fraud, don't be embarrassed! Learn from your experience, and report it without being ashamed to help the next guy around.
Sure, gullible people are easier targets, but in the end anyone can be victim of a well established fraud using an hypnotist or not.
Appearing to agree and actually believing are two different things.
In the case of a fraud it doesn't really matter. If the fraudster can make you act upon your belief, or your pretended one, he will get what he wants.
From my experience, Indonesians are much more gullible than Westerners. Maybe it comes from the idea of respecting authority, myths, or whatever. I'm not sure why, but I'm convinced that I could con an Indonesian with way more ease than I could a Westerner.
Almost all Indonesians I know have been caught up in money ravaging schemes like Tiens, overseas-jobs, promised trips to Europe, etc... I'm certain every expat here can name more Indonesians who lost money to scams than they can name Westerners who fell in the same traps.
A hypnotist is similar to a troll... Trolling around and, someone getting trolled.
Hypnotized over the phone ???? Oh dear oh dear .......... too many Harry Potter movies over the holidays I'm thinking ...
Hypnotized over the phone ???? Oh dear oh dear .......... too many Harry Potter movies over the holidays I'm thinking ...
It's possible, but requires that you catch someone at the right time. NLP doesn't have that problem, it just means whoever's doing the talking has to have the gift of gab, as it were. Silly example:
I call your house, I don't know who I'll get on the phone but I'm going to assume it's going to be your maid; she answers, I commence the game by starting off saying I'm with PLN and we're doing a survey and can I please speak to whoever is "in charge" of paying the electricity bills and so on. This probably gets me your wife; I repeat the whole thing, and while discussing things like whether or not power has been down, has everything been satisfactory, I'll see if I can slip in something about how I need to wait a bit since my internet connection to the main office died, and oh doesn't internet suck here. Depending on the response to that, different things happen. No response = try again with something else. A response can lead to a little back and forth that lets me know whether or not you have Speedy, and whether or not you have had technicians at your place fixing things.
In the latter scenario: chances are good that your password for Speedy is the same as your phone number minus it's area code. Still doesn't give me your customer number, but knowing your phone number, name, I can easily call the Speedy helpdesk, pretend to be you, and have them give me the customer number since hey, that on it's own isn't going to hurt anything now does it?
So now I have free internet, courtesy of a few short phone calls. No risk, all the fun.
And that's a rather innocent example. I could in theory go and steal your identity, although that would be a multi-week process involving the social engineering of many people to piece together enough bits of information to make it possible. And it is possible; I do work as an IT security consultant, and a big part of that is social engineering - and seriously, you won't believe the things you can do with phone calls and basically being able to spin a good yarn.
I honestly don't see anything embarrassing in either case. You can't really stop an hypnotist if you don't see him coming, it doesn't matter how strong you think you are. The same way you can't always stop a fraud unless it's a obvious one.
Tell that to Pimpin. This entire line of argument started because he thinks there's no hypnosis crime, it's just people making story up because they're too embarrassed to admit that they've been defrauded.
Being embarrassed is one of the problems. Embarrassed people are less likely to report the case. I think everyone has to become aware of fraud and that it can happen to anyone regardless if you're intelligent or not. If you get caught in a fraud, don't be embarrassed! Learn from your experience, and report it without being ashamed to help the next guy around.
In my experience most people are more angry and (if it's a relatively large amount of money) depressed than embarrassed. Unless it involves highly illegal things, people are actually quite willing to share their experience of being a victim of fraud. I sincerely think that you can't grow old in Indonesia without once getting scammed of any kind, it's that common. The majority are small, and you just chalk them up as tuition to the school of hard knocks. If you're lucky and really careful, you'll avoid the big ones.
Reporting it to the authorities is a different matter. There's low confidence in their ability (and willingness) to solve fraud cases. The common attitude is "why bother?"
In the case of a fraud it doesn't really matter. If the fraudster can make you act upon your belief, or your pretended one, he will get what he wants.
From my experience, Indonesians are much more gullible than Westerners. Maybe it comes from the idea of respecting authority, myths, or whatever. I'm not sure why, but I'm convinced that I could con an Indonesian with way more ease than I could a Westerner.
Almost all Indonesians I know have been caught up in money ravaging schemes like Tiens, overseas-jobs, promised trips to Europe, etc... I'm certain every expat here can name more Indonesians who lost money to scams than they can name Westerners who fell in the same traps.
While Indonesia certainly has a fair share of lowly educated and gullible people, I think desperation plays a bigger role. If you're gasping for air just to survive, you'll grab a hold of damn near anything. Those employment schemes are particularly insidious because there's no shortage of people in Indonesia desperate for work.
This is probably a wild guess, but I think the vast majority of westerners in Indonesia don't fit under the category of "desperate", at least not for money.
You're falling into a deep dark sleep ...
Transfer some money to my account ...
Click - you're back in the room!
Regarding the above discussion, I'd be inclined to agree with "people who get hypnotised are rather thick" argument. Having seen some programmes where they do hypnotism there is always a process of weeding out people who it won't work on first, so in the end it's only the weak-minded who they try to hypnotise, which is why it works.
I read from somewhere that one of Maddof victim is a Noble laurette .
Everyone can become victim of scam or fraud ,esp. If you are getting older..probably mild dementia might cloud your judgement.
I got conned by some middle aged lady I met on the street nearby my office .. the modus ..lost wallet ..need transportation money . How do I know it's a scam? a colleague told me a similar encountered ,so that lady lost her wallet twice in a month ? :D
Tell that to Pimpin. This entire line of argument started because he thinks there's no hypnosis crime, it's just people making story up because they're too embarrassed to admit that they've been defrauded.
Why tell Pimpin? Superpie is an authority on the subject so you give his opinion deserved weight? Unconvinced.
Regarding the above discussion, I'd be inclined to agree with "people who get hypnotised are rather thick" argument. Having seen some programmes where they do hypnotism there is always a process of weeding out people who it won't work on first, so in the end it's only the weak-minded who they try to hypnotise, which is why it works.
I think you're generalizing here. Being susceptible to hypnosis and being stupid or feeble-minded are too different things. You can be very intelligent and have a strong will for most things, but still be susceptible to hypnosis. If it were always stupid people that could get hypnotized they wouldn't bother doing hypnosis tests to weed out the easy ones. They would just pick the stupid ones right away.
The so-called "hypnotism" is also not really hypnotism; it's social engineering as well, or rather, NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming). Whereas hypnotism can make you act like a rabid monkey on drugs, NLP will make you susceptible to suggestions, when done correctly, a suggestion can come across to you as being your own idea. In the long run it still boils down to making people do things they usually wouldn't do.
Expats are also not immune to this; there's a good chance that I can social engineer a good amount of you lot :) I invite you to try it ......... utter tripe
Why tell Pimpin? Superpie is an authority on the subject so you give his opinion deserved weight? Unconvinced. Souperpie is an expert on EVERYTHING....
Souperpie is an expert on EVERYTHING....
I do have a lot of time to read as I do not need to work. I wouldn't say I'm an expert on everything, but I do know a lot about various subjects.
Why tell Pimpin? Superpie is an authority on the subject so you give his opinion deserved weight? Unconvinced.
It has nothing to do with his expertise, it's just that based on his position he's supposed to have this conversation with you, not with me. I'm not the one who thinks the problem lies with embarrassment.
I invite you to try it ......... utter tripe
And that marks the difference between someone who is easily engineered and someone who needs a lot of work. Utter tripe? Perhaps the example was, but it can go as far as needed to get the result required; suppose you get a call from the embassy some day, real or not? Given enough time, I can find out who you are, where you live, what you do for a living, what you relatives do for a living - and Indonesia being Indonesia, a small amount of cash will get me much more information that I'm theoretically not supposed to have. It's not tripe, in fact, it's scarily easy to do, it just takes a fair amount of work. Besides that, I have a few moral fibers remaining, so I won't be doing it.
It is equally embarrassing to be a victim of hypnotism because it implies that you're feeble-minded, or you don't have all your marbles.
Oh, you don't?
but I do know a lot about various subjects.
A Jack of all trades, master at none, you mean? That's how I interpret the word "various"... Not being sarcastic, just curious.
It's possible, but requires that you catch someone at the right time. NLP doesn't have that problem, it just means whoever's doing the talking has to have the gift of gab, as it were. Silly example:
I call your house, I don't know who I'll get on the phone but I'm going to assume it's going to be your maid; she answers, I commence the game by starting off saying I'm with PLN and we're doing a survey and can I please speak to whoever is "in charge" of paying the electricity bills and so on. This probably gets me your wife; I repeat the whole thing, and while discussing things like whether or not power has been down, has everything been satisfactory, I'll see if I can slip in something about how I need to wait a bit since my internet connection to the main office died, and oh doesn't internet suck here. Depending on the response to that, different things happen. No response = try again with something else. A response can lead to a little back and forth that lets me know whether or not you have Speedy, and whether or not you have had technicians at your place fixing things.
In the latter scenario: chances are good that your password for Speedy is the same as your phone number minus it's area code. Still doesn't give me your customer number, but knowing your phone number, name, I can easily call the Speedy helpdesk, pretend to be you, and have them give me the customer number since hey, that on it's own isn't going to hurt anything now does it?
So now I have free internet, courtesy of a few short phone calls. No risk, all the fun.
And that's a rather innocent example. I could in theory go and steal your identity, although that would be a multi-week process involving the social engineering of many people to piece together enough bits of information to make it possible. And it is possible; I do work as an IT security consultant, and a big part of that is social engineering - and seriously, you won't believe the things you can do with phone calls and basically being able to spin a good yarn. You call MY house you get MY answering service .........all calls transferred to ME..... the BS detectors are set to max ......
And that marks the difference between someone who is easily engineered and someone who needs a lot of work. Utter tripe? Perhaps the example was, but it can go as far as needed to get the result required; suppose you get a call from the embassy some day, real or not? Given enough time, I can find out who you are, where you live, what you do for a living, what you relatives do for a living - and Indonesia being Indonesia, a small amount of cash will get me much more information that I'm theoretically not supposed to have. It's not tripe, in fact, it's scarily easy to do, it just takes a fair amount of work. Besides that, I have a few moral fibers remaining, so I won't be doing it.Nope would not work, I get a call from the "Embassy" I want to know how they got my number, second I wnat a name and number plus extention to call back, third I do a line trace, fourth I call the local BE Warden and report the said traced number for pretending to be an embassy official... if they are in a bad mood they call up the embassy "police" and start turning over stones..... next ?
How the hell would an Embassy have your phone number? That's completely ridiculous to begin with.
How the hell would an Embassy have your phone number? That's completely ridiculous to begin with.
Theorectically when traveling abroad you are suppose to report to your local embassy/consulate and let them know your contact information, address ect.
Suppose to? Advised perhaps? Its a service that is available if one wishes to do so.
Oh, you don't?
I don't what?
A Jack of all trades, master at none, you mean? That's how I interpret the word "various"... Not being sarcastic, just curious.
Well I have a masters in classical music, and spend my time between personal projects in computer programming and musical compositions. I started to learn programming when I was 7 using a ZX81. I don't have to work like I said, so I have a lot of time to read. I mostly like Plato, Derrida, Rousseau, Feynman, Boulez, Adorno, etc... My favorite is Kierkegaard. I read about a book every two days. For relaxing I enjoy reading Tintin and http://abstrusegoose.com/ which is always funny.
In terms of music, I like Xenakis, Boulez, Stravinsky, Ravel... (Zappa, King Crimson, Fugazi, etc... when I was young) And my favorite visual artists are Matthew Barney and http://markryden.com/.
I love chess and enjoy analysing positions from GM games. Tal is one of my favorite players. I also enjoy the scientific Bobby Fischer and the fast playing Morphy. I have a masters rating on ICC, but mostly play blitz these days.
I don't believe in hyper specializing which is the source of the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none". I believe we should go back to a time like the Renaissance when men were well rounded. Someone with a PH.D. in science who only knows his field and has no interest for anything else is problematic in my mind.
no I am NOT going there ........... I must NOT I must NOT
no I am NOT going there ........... I must NOT I must NOT
You know you want to, but you're right, don't.
Theorectically when traveling abroad you are suppose to report to your local embassy/consulate and let them know your contact information, address ect.
Indonesians are required to report to the closest Indonesian Embassy / Consulate if they're staying for a long period of time.
Indonesians are required to report to the closest Indonesian Embassy / Consulate if they're staying for a long period of time.
Exactly... and the same applies to all other citizens of the world. It is clearly stated in every passport from every country.
I just read my passport and it doesn't say that! Weird?!
I just read my passport and it doesn't say that! Weird?!
Canada, right? Hmmm...
I have two nationalities, but yeah my Canadian passport doesn't mention it.
Exactly... and the same applies to all other citizens of the world. It is clearly stated in every passport from every country.
"urged to" but not "required".
I have two nationalities, but yeah my Canadian passport doesn't mention it.
Only two, and your already confused?? Never mind sir, I understand.
Exactly... and the same applies to all other citizens of the world. It is clearly stated in every passport from every country.
Yeah, but I don't know how serious the penalty is for not complying, for other countries. In the old days failure to report can potentially cost you your Indonesian citizenship, so Indonesians take it seriously. I understand the law has changed, but people still do it just to be safe.
I have two nationalities, but yeah my Canadian passport doesn't mention it.
Only two, and your already confused?? Never mind sir, I understand.
Not confused at all. Just can't find it. Can you tell me on which page of the Canadian passport I can find this requirement. It might help me find it faster.
Yeah, but I don't know how serious the penalty is for not complying, for other countries. In the old days failure to report can potentially cost you your Indonesian citizenship, so Indonesians take it seriously. I understand the law has changed, but people still do it just to be safe.
Yes, Indonesian citizens can actually lose their citizenship if a certain time goes by which they do not labor diri... Dipersulit lah pd saat mau perpanjangan paspor dll.
Not confused at all. Just can't find it. Can you tell me on which page of the Canadian passport I can find this requirement. It might help me find it faster.
Wouldn't know, don't have Canadian passport. Call your embassy/consulat and inquire tomorrow. Put it on you short list of "things to do"...
travellingchez
05-01-11, 23:48
Bored so I had a look at my passport. The British passport just states that oversea residents who are entitled to protection from UK should contact nearest British Consulate/embassy to made arrangements for registration of their name and address.
I doesn't say you must register but states that if you haven't then if you have a problem it may result in delay/difficulty in them assisting or protecting you.
I only registered with the British Consulate in Medan after living in Indonesia for 3 years. I only registered as they had a party for all British Nationals which involved free food and drink. If I was offered that on day one of arriving I would have registered sooner :)
Wouldn't know, don't have Canadian passport. Call your embassy/consulat and inquire tomorrow. Put it on you short list of "things to do"...
I thought you had a valid reason for thinking I was confused. I guess you just enjoy insulting gratuitously even though it's the easier and most boring form of insult.
Bored so I had a look at my passport. The British passport just states that oversea residents who are entitled to protection from UK should contact nearest British Consulate/embassy to made arrangements for registration of their name and address.
I doesn't say you must register but states that if you haven't then if you have a problem it may result in delay/difficulty in them assisting or protecting you.
I only registered with the British Consulate in Medan after living in Indonesia for 3 years. I only registered as they had a party for all British Nationals which involved free food and drink. If I was offered that on day one of arriving I would have registered sooner :)
Regardless mandatory or not, it's basically for statistics and to fulfill there "want to know" info...
Just like Indonesians abroad, I find it next to imposdible they would take citizenship away for not reporting yourself, but they do take it serious. That would make one "stateless"...
I thought you had a valid reason for thinking I was confused. I guess you just enjoy insulting gratuitously even though it's the easier and most boring form of insult.
Sorry sir, no pun intended. We are all here to exchange information and express opinions. Sorry you took it in that way?
travellingchez
05-01-11, 23:58
Regardless mandatory or not, it's basically for statistics and to fulfill there "want to know" info...
Just like Indonesians abroad, I find it next to imposdible they would take citizenship away for not reporting yourself, but they do take it serious. That would make one "stateless"...
We were made aware of this by our friends so I made sure that my husband registered in England. Also the Indonesian Embassy seems to have a lot more social events in the UK that the British embassy ever had in Indonesia. So more that sufficient opportunities for him to register when we went to London.
Sorry sir, no pun intended. We are all here to exchange information and express opinions. Sorry you took it in that way?
An insult is an insult and there is no other way to take it. It doesn't bother me at all. I just find it funny you don't find a more creative way of insulting others. I enjoy reading insults if they are well thought out, but yours just seemed like they were typed haphazardly without any brains behind the fingers.
As for loosing your Indonesian citizenship I wouldn't worry too much. I have a Indonesian friend who lives in Canada, and has been doing so for 15 years. She has her Canadian citizenship, so she had to renounce her Indonesian one. When she last came it was for a lengthy stay, so after entering Indonesia as a tourist with her Canadian passport, she went to her Kampung, got her papers ready and applied for an Indonesian Passport. She got it soon enough and exited and re-entered the country for her lengthy stay. The truth is Indonesian immigration is ill equipped to deal with cases like these.
An insult is an insult and there is no other way to take it. It doesn't bother me at all. I just find it funny you don't find a more creative way of insulting others. I enjoy reading insults if they are well thought out, but yours just seemed like they were typed haphazardly without any brains behind the fingers.
As for loosing your Indonesian citizenship I wouldn't worry too much. I have a Indonesian friend who lives in Canada, and has been doing so for 15 years. She has her Canadian citizenship, so she had to renounce her Indonesian one. When she last came it was for a lengthy stay, so after entering Indonesia as a tourist with her Canadian passport, she went to her Kampung, got her papers ready and applied for an Indonesian Passport. She got it soon enough and exited and re-entered the country for her lengthy stay. The truth is Indonesian immigration is ill equipped to deal with cases like these.
Ok sir... You seem to be taking things too serious. Lighten up, your in Bali and don't work. Go give the wifey a hug, and get all that paperwork done for her so you can take her to Canada. You got it all worked out from what we can see.
I would vote you as the next moderator.
I've never registered to my countries embassies because it isn't required. I have retained my citizenships and I haven't been jailed nor shot.
Thanks, but I wouldn't want to be the moderator on these boards. The interesting threads are the ones with insults and attacks. Remove those and you mostly have idle chit-chat amidst a few wonderful and informative posts by Atlantis.
I've never registered to my countries embassies because it isn't required. I have retained my citizenships and I haven't been jailed nor shot.
Be lucky your not Indonesian then...
Thanks, but I wouldn't want to be the moderator on these boards. The interesting threads are the ones with insults and attacks. Remove those and you mostly have idle chit-chat amidst a few wonderful and informative posts by Atlantis.
finally we agree with something sir... Alhamdulilah
The interesting threads are the ones with insults and attacks.
You got my vote then.
You call MY house you get MY answering service .........all calls transferred to ME..... the BS detectors are set to max ......
Good; because that means you won't fall for relatively obvious things. It doesn't mean you are immune to being social engineered, it just means that the amount of work required to do so isn't worth the payoff in the end, so nobody will bother - which is the exact situation you want to be in.
Good; because that means you won't fall for relatively obvious things. It doesn't mean you are immune to being social engineered, it just means that the amount of work required to do so isn't worth the payoff in the end, so nobody will bother - which is the exact situation you want to be in. No, you miss the point ....... I have been around the block more than a few times.......... I CANNOT be "socially engineered" because I have a huge streak of cynicism with a side order of reality......... I take NOTHING at face value.... repeat nothing, nada, bugger all, not a sausage, niet, etc etc etc..... and when me cash comes through from me Nigerian Businessman friend I will be the one laffing ..........
You know you want to, but you're right, don't. ...... but the voices say I must .......
Well I have a masters in classical music, and spend my time between personal projects in computer programming and musical compositions. I started to learn programming when I was 7 using a ZX81. I don't have to work like I said, so I have a lot of time to read. I mostly like Plato, Derrida, Rousseau, Feynman, Boulez, Adorno, etc... My favorite is Kierkegaard. I read about a book every two days. For relaxing I enjoy reading Tintin and http://abstrusegoose.com/ which is always funny.
In terms of music, I like Xenakis, Boulez, Stravinsky, Ravel... (Zappa, King Crimson, Fugazi, etc... when I was young) And my favorite visual artists are Matthew Barney and http://markryden.com/.
I love chess and enjoy analysing positions from GM games. Tal is one of my favorite players. I also enjoy the scientific Bobby Fischer and the fast playing Morphy. I have a masters rating on ICC, but mostly play blitz these days.
I don't believe in hyper specializing which is the source of the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none". I believe we should go back to a time like the Renaissance when men were well rounded. Someone with a PH.D. in science who only knows his field and has no interest for anything else is problematic in my mind.....you need to get out more...........
....you need to get out more...........
Touché. Ya, you're right, I need to get out more! I definitely agree with that.
Registering with the US Embassy doesn't require a trip to the embassy-- you can do it quickly and easily on their website (http://jakarta.usembassy.gov/register-embassy.html). It's not required, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt. By registering, you receive email and/or SMS updates from the embassy, security alerts, policy changes, etc... They also know where you are and how to contact you, in case of an emergency. If you end up in trouble and you're already in their system, getting assistance from them is much quicker. Plus, if there was some need to evacuate American citizens and you're not registered with the embassy, they won't know you need to be evacuated.
No, you miss the point ....... I have been around the block more than a few times.......... I CANNOT be "socially engineered" because I have a huge streak of cynicism with a side order of reality......... I take NOTHING at face value.... repeat nothing, nada, bugger all, not a sausage, niet, etc etc etc..... and when me cash comes through from me Nigerian Businessman friend I will be the one laffing ..........
Oooh, well if the cash comes through, make a webpage explaining how to get money out of the nigerian businessmen/presidents/bank owners/etc. :D
They're funny though.
They also know where you are .
Here in lies the problem.
Registering with the US Embassy doesn't require a trip to the embassy-- you can do it quickly and easily on their website (http://jakarta.usembassy.gov/register-embassy.html). It's not required, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt. By registering, you receive email and/or SMS updates from the embassy, security alerts, policy changes, etc... They also know where you are and how to contact you, in case of an emergency. If you end up in trouble and you're already in their system, getting assistance from them is much quicker. Plus, if there was some need to evacuate American citizens and you're not registered with the embassy, they won't know you need to be evacuated.
Amen, that is why I am registered with the Embassy. They also send us reports if there is some sort of risk in Indonesia.
Waking up in the mornings and going to work is already a risk of it's own. What more help could the US Embassy offer that we don't know already?
Agreed. Anything one "needs" to know gets to me pretty damn quick through Indonesians usually first then pop on the tube or internet and there it is. If I need to be evacutated I think I can make it to the US Embassy or airport. If I'm incapacitated away from home how would they find me anyways? If I'm at home but can't read sms notices are they coming to pick me up on a stretcher without answering to their call?
Almost every security alert I've received from the embassy was reported by the embassy to enrolled citizens before the regular press caught wind of it-- if the MSM reported on it at all. I also find the security alerts a helpful traffic guide, since my husband commutes past the embassy every day. When I get an email that says they're setting up Brimob in anticipation of a possible protest, I tell my husband and he's able to re-route his commute. It's actually quite useful.
Almost every security alert I've received from the embassy was reported by the embassy to enrolled citizens before the regular press caught wind of it-- if the MSM reported on it at all. I also find the security alerts a helpful traffic guide, since my husband commutes past the embassy every day. When I get an email that says they're setting up Brimob in anticipation of a possible protest, I tell my husband and he's able to re-route his commute. It's actually quite useful.
Again... Amen... I have gotten several emails way before anything was ever announced on the news. I can't think of the exact news piece, but I remember getting an email one day, then the next morning it was on the news and my wife made mention of it... I laughed and said "I knew that yesterday."
Again... Amen... I have gotten several emails way before anything was ever announced on the news. I can't think of the exact news piece, but I remember getting an email one day, then the next morning it was on the news and my wife made mention of it... I laughed and said "I knew that yesterday."
Sorry guys, but I think it's over reacting.
Then again it depends how long you been here and what assets you have...
Durring the riots back in '98, I was mowing grass at my old mans house and had lunch after that. He lives in Jakarta. Inccidents are typically iccolated at not meant for the whole country. Save time and money before you react.
The US always overreacts when announcing threats. They cultivate a culture of fear. If I was a US citizen living in Indonesia, I would stay clear of the US embassy and anything else that reminds me of US. One of the benefits of being in Indonesia is that we are so far from US.
travellingchez
07-01-11, 00:28
Thankfully the only communication you ever get from the British Embassy is when they are having an event.
They trust that you can find out for yourself/ look on the website if there is a problem.
I was told by a director of US firm based in Jakarta, that few days before May riot 1998,his HQ had issued evacuation order for all expats in his company and arranged a chartered jet to singapore. my guess, US intel in Jakarta knew better about the situation at that time and issued a warning to any US firms operating in Indonesia before the riot erupted.
The director is chinese indonesia,raised and studied in US .He just got placement in Jakarta back in 1998 and by the way he telling me the story, I think he's quite amazed and grateful by the swift action his company had taken.
The US always overreacts when announcing threats. They cultivate a culture of fear. If I was a US citizen living in Indonesia, I would stay clear of the US embassy and anything else that reminds me of US. One of the benefits of being in Indonesia is that we are so far from US.
You can simply ignore their security warnings but I'm sure the information won't be a burden and should help you to evaluate the situation using a number of different sources of information.
You can simply ignore their security warnings but I'm sure the information won't be a burden and should help you to evaluate the situation using a number of different sources of information.
I lost faith when they lied about their reason to go to war in Irak. False information can be dangerous. So dangerous that thousands of young men are sent overseas to fight a battle they cannot comprehend and end up killing innocent civilians in the process. So dangerous that laws like the Patriot Act can be passed which strips the fundamental rights of unsuspecting Americans for decades to come. US, not its people, has unfortunately become an embarrassment for democracy. Hopefully, one day it will sink like Atlantis. Its citizens are getting pretty fat. As we speak, clever statisticians are calculating if their combined weight might already have started the unavoidable drop towards hell.
As a rule of thumb, one is safer if he doesn't follow the most often ill recommendations oozing out of the White House.
I was told by a director of US firm based in Jakarta, that few days before May riot 1998,his HQ had issued evacuation order for all expats in his company and arranged a chartered jet to singapore. my guess, US intel in Jakarta knew better about the situation at that time and issued a warning to any US firms operating in Indonesia before the riot erupted.
The director is chinese indonesia,raised and studied in US .He just got placement in Jakarta back in 1998 and by the way he telling me the story, I think he's quite amazed and grateful by the swift action his company had taken.
Ya, I heard the same thing. My aunt is a manager/director/something-or-other at Cisco (the tech firm based in the Silicon Valley) and they evacuated all of their Indonesian-based American employees *before* the rioting started in 1998 based on intel provided to them by the American embassy. Was it an overreaction? Possibly, in hindsight. But better safe than sorry.
The Dutch embassy issues alerts from time to time but they basically boil down to "we expect <thing> to happen soon, so please, watch yourselves and don't be an idiot".
If I was a US citizen living in Indonesia, I would stay clear of the US embassy and anything else that reminds me of US. One of the benefits of being in Indonesia is that we are so far from US.
No Pizza Hut, KFC, McD's etc?? That too is dangerous to your health, right?
No Pizza Hut, KFC, McD's etc?? That too is dangerous to your health, right?
I'm no health nut! Coffee and cigarettes are my ambrosia and nectar.
I don't eat in those places because I fail to understand why someone would pay 40,000 rupiah for food that taste bad and doesn't fill you up, instead of 8,000 for a delicious nasi goreng.
If you want to travel to US and don't want to pass as a visible minority, I suggest you do eat at those places in an attempt to fatten yourself up.
Still, I don't mind using US products. I type on an Apple computer. My problem is more with governments and news outlets. Watching CNN is a drag, and FOX?
Tjamail, you don't have to worry. I'll support your desire to be a fan of US as long as we live. Although I don't agree with your opinion, I will fight for your right to espouse it.
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